Selling my SS tomorrow...

[ShowSStopper]

Originally Posted by Shuffler

Not my idea of saving the environment with using all that electricity.... or dumping all those batteries.

[BowtieBelle]

Originally Posted by Shuffler

Not my idea of saving the environment with using all that electricity.... or dumping all those batteries.

Originally Posted by ShowSStopper

+1. People don't get that most electricity comes from coal...

[Rangore]

[CAMAROZL1]

Originally Posted by ShowSStopper

I have NOT driven the Volt. For one, because I'm 6'7" 280 pounds...I'm not seeing it as a comfortable fit. For two, the price is insane.

Yes, as a GM employee I did receive GM's official response to the Reuter's report saying GM loses a ton of money on the Volt. Honestly, I didn't buy into that corporate jargon one bit.

Saying that they see the Volt making a profit over the life of the car, even if not now, is the exact same archaic mindset GM coporate had BEFORE the bailout. Betting on a product to EVENTUALLY make you money is not smart business if said product is bankrupting you on its course to fruition. And we all know GM stock is well below the $54 a share needed for us taxpayers to break even on the deal the government made on our behalf.

Anyway, without getting too political, my issue with the Volt is mainly the cost and the fact that electric cars are NOT the future. Yes, there is a need for an alternative fuel. Hydrogen is the answer and has already been done by Honda.

Will it take off globally? That remains to be seen, but it sure should.

Nissan's Leaf is a fully-electric vehicle...that's not the same as the Volt, where it has a gasoline engine as a backup for its battery power...so technically speaking, the fully-electric car would pack more tech than one still reliant on a gasoline motor......and they sell the car cheaper as well.

Also, there have been a few Volt fires since launch..not just the accident after the NHSTA testing where it developed a battery leak which, after weeks of sitting, caused a fire. Multiple owners have had issues with charging the vehicle and the charge cables melting, etc.

Also, how much good are you actually doing the planet when your electricity still comes from a factory that pollutes like crazy?

All this adds up to one conclusion: The Volt is simply not needed and is not financially competitive with MUCH better offerings from other manufacturers. GM royally botched their entry with this car and they are only keeping it in production so they have a nice PR line about how they DO indeed have a small hybrid car.

The Cruze is practically the Volt with a gas motor...and it goes for $18k. So why would anyone pay over $20k more for a Volt? It doesn't make sense.

And I'm not anti-American at ALL. Ford is my favorite brand, and they are not the best, but guess what? I like their cars. But foreign brands outlast domestic brands on a consistent basis, and that's just a fact, as Ricky Bobby would say...ha.

I can tell you the Buick Enclave and the GMC Acadia are two of the biggest piles of junk I've ever seen. Consistenly our service bays are loaded with heavy line issues on those two vehicles.

I don't believe brands like Toyota have more issues than GM. The statistics definitly don't show it.



Notice Dodge, Chrysler, Jeep, RAM, GMC, Chevrolet...all had more issues than the industry standard. The one GM brand that ranked highest, Cadillac, tied with...imagine that...TOYOTA...for least issues. Ford and Lincoln placed much higher on the list as well than Chevrolet for that matter. Heck, SCIONS are reporting less issues...now that's pretty sad.

I know you are a hardcore GM guy..and that's good. But all signs are pointing to GM quality not being up to par.

At 6'7" and at 280 pounds, you are not in the national average of an American. The fact that the Volt cannot suit you is no fault of it's own. It's interior and packaging was based on the average height and weight of an American which is about 168-189 lbs and the height is 5 foot and 10 inches according to my sources.

The price is reasonable in accordance to the many costs involved in making the Chevrolet Volt reach the production line. Chevrolet is NOT the only car company that stretches the cost of production over the lifetime of the vehicle. For example:

Why do you think many vehicle platforms are shared?

Engines for that matter?

The Nissan Leaf's technology is not comparable to the Chevrolet Volt because due to it's range, it is ONLY a reasonable city car at best. Good luck using the leaf during the wintertime! The Chevrolet Volt is an electric vehicle without compromises! The only other manufacturers that can say the same thing is Tesla and Fisker and look at what THEY charge for their cars.

The new upcoming electric vehicles that are coming to challenge the Volt are going to be sold in the SAME price range! Your comment on fires? Get over it, it's as flammable as the Toyota Prius and GM has fixed the small issues such as the wires to customers as quickly as possible.

Hydrogen vehicles? Yes, neat things that run on water. However, to be able to contain and store that fuel safely is EXPENSIVE due to rare earth materials. There are other factors that hinders hydrogen as a fuel source. GM has been trying to crack the code to inexpensive mass production of hydrogen vehicles before Honda and others. It is an on-going investigation of research and development.

Regarding the comment on GM stock, I'll let Ed Whitacre speak:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...477733900.html

Stocks are devilish things. It's a difficult and frustrating thing to manage. Look at facebook's stock. It was greatly unveiled with great promises and look at it now: It has plummeted 45% in value. The only company that has been able to skyrocket in value is Apple and that is RARE. If everyone knew how to increase stock value: GM, Facebook, Blackberry and others would not be talking about declining stock value and everyone would be rich! Life is not that simple kiddo.

JD Power and Associates are a JOKE. I'll let Motor Trend speak on my behalf:

http://blogs.motortrend.com/j-d-powe...ity-25937.html

Please, be informed! The world is much more complicated than you will ever know! I know that you don't hate American companies, proof is in the Camaro that you own, but it baffles me greatly on how misinformed you are.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______________________________

I apologize for the rant, OP and Mods! My last post on this topic. Just felt it needed to be said.

[DarkneSS]

I'd rather have the Acura + a house than just the Camaro. You'll get another one someday.

[crsr1]

Originally Posted by angie7

Me too...its such a hard thing to even consider but I am. I'm looking at a 4 door Jeep Wrangler for several reasons. I'm a single mom of 6 yr old twin girls. I'd like to just have 1 car instead of my garage queen Camaro that sits in a garage 70% of the time and then my dd car. Cheaper car pmts, cheaper ins, more room, practical in any weather. And my daughter is being tested right now for a rare medical condition and if she has it, I'll be making several trips to Chicago and back for her specialists so the Camaro will go if that happens. The Jeep would still be a fun car so I dont feel it would be too big of a hit. Life happens, we can't help the things that change. But I'll def if and when the day comes that the SS goes.

Had a Jeep.....gas is worse. It was a 2010 JK Islander.

[blackswan]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

There are just so many things wrong with some of what you've written.

1. It may be 'American Honda' -- but don't fool yourself - follow the money.

2. The Japanese market for all intents and purposes is a closed market - so is Korea. Research will prove this. Not so with America and Canada. Most of us are upset with the American Economy - there's so much wrong with it - but you may want to go and look at the Trade deficit in automobiles and trucks alone - it's stunning.

3. Buying non-domestic brands does not necessarily support America more than buying Domestic brands.

4. Before you start talking about Volt fires - please do some research -- ONE fire - THREE WEEKS after NHTSA did their crash test - and further, NHTSA did not disconnect the Batteries as you are supposed to do in ANY hybrid or electric car. Further - the fire took place on a weekend with no witnesses and no video cameras......so no one really knows what happened. NHTSA took another volt -- crash tested it - drained the coolant out of the battery packs -and poked and prodded - could only get sparks and this after torturing the car far beyond what anyone could possibly do -

5. in terms of price - one could purchase a Cruze Eco for $19,000 MSRP - it's rated at 42mpg highway - that's hybrid fuel economy without the hybrid part! Further - when USA Today was given a Cruze Eco - the writer said that there was no way the car would get 42mpg - he was right - he got 43!
Oh - and the Cruze is built in Lordstown, Ohio.

6. Your 3 year battery statement is false. Further, GM has a plan in place to recycle batteries.

You may not like the Volt - that's certainly your perogative - but please - before you bash it, would you kindly do some research?

It's true that most Hybrids and electric cars are not in demand. However, our elected officials are insisting that every manufacturer meet a fuel economy standard of over 56 mpg by 2023. As of now, there isn't a manufacturer that can hit that number - and it's even more concerning when you realize that it includes SUVs and trucks under (as I recall) 6,250 lbs GVW. So like it or not, GM is moving forward with Electric Vehicles -- Hybrids - (top to bottom - buses were first - then pickups and full sized SUVS....) Hydrogen Vehicles (we have approx 150 Fuel Cell Equinoxes on the road - loaned to American families) - Active Fuel Management - E85 - and other technologies that I cannot speak about.

It's sad when you think that so many Americans want to bash GM over the Volt - yet I hear crickets chirping over the Leaf. I'm in the midst of a Volt ride and drive in various parts of the country - and I invite you to come and listen to what people have to say about it......

Lastly - you live in Texas - you may want to look at what GM and all the affiliated suppliers and vendors and dealers have provided in terms of the economy versus Toyota. (Yes - we know - they have a plant in San Antonio...) The last time i looked about two years ago, GM Arlington was over 6 million units - San Antonio was a couple hundred thousand............

I don't mean to be harsh - but I'm pretty taken aback at your lashing out at the Volt and American Manufacturers.

If I've misunderstood some of this - then you have my apologies.

I like what this guy said!

[Mr. iNCREDIBLE]

Originally Posted by BowtieBelle

+1. People don't get that most electricity comes from coal...

not exactly... depends on where you live. but coal is not the majority producer of electricity.

nationwide 45% is coal,

23% is Natural Gas and 20% is Nuclear

so almost an even split with the other 12% nationwide being Solar, Wind, and Hydro.

so actually the majority (55%) is not coal..

But it depends on where you live, alternative renewable are primarily used in CA, AZ, NM, NV, UT, OR, WA, and TX.

These are also areas where hybrids and electric vehicle have the majority of their sales because cold is bad for batteries..

and the comment about 3 year life span on the batteries is ignorance. We own a 2007 Camry Hybrid, we are on 5 years and 70K miles and the last test showed our batteries are still 98% efficient..

My mother and brother in law both are driving 2005 Civic Hybrids, both with nearly 150K on them (actually I think my brother in law has closer to 200K) and they are 95% efficient..

I also recently read about a lady that has a 1st generation Prius with 400K miles bought in 2002 and she is still using the original batteries, with a 95% efficient rating (I think this was on the local news as well).

3 years is only what the warranty is.. Take care of the car, and like anything else it will last.

[shrinkdoc]

Originally Posted by Jeanius

Bought a house, commute is 60 miles each way, needed a gas getter. I bought a Acura and haven't driven the Camaro in 3 weeks, I just cant justify paying monthly for something I barely use.

Chevy Camaro to Acura??...Not a real chevy guy. I would be driving a V6 camaro with a stick if gas was the issue.

[shrinkdoc]

Originally Posted by MyOrangeCamaro

Too bad you couldn't of bought another American car.

Ditto

[shrinkdoc]

Originally Posted by ihaveacamaro

American brands are often not made in America. Actually more import brands are made here than american!

You support american labor by buying imports lol

Never get me to buy a state/federal subsidized foriegn car where they build their assembly plants in the boonies where no other factories or jobs are whereas they can pay low wages of $15 to $20 an hour to the local folk. A few clicks above working at walmart. But heck out in the rural areas it doesnt take much to keep them happy. And actually most foriegn plants are just assembly plants and they also don't have to participate in NAFTA like US companies where they have to build a portion of there products in Canada and Mexico.

[shrinkdoc]

Originally Posted by ShowSStopper

The car is freaking Canadian. You can throw that under the blanket "North American" crap if you want. Is the car made in America? NO IT IS NOT. So, until Canada becomes Canadian America, then it is NOT an American car.



Also, yes, the Prius has batteries...never said it didn't. I was simply saying that batteries, in general, have to go somewhere.

As for the steep Volt discount, well, they better...because that car is going over like a lead balloon.

Yeh...lets thank NAFTA for that. But its an American car built in Canada.

[oldfriend]

Originally Posted by 90503

Accura 30mpg 120 miles 4 gallons
Camaro 20mpg 120 miles 6 gallons

$4.00 per gal= $8 per day savings....x 20 workdays = $160. per month x 12= $1,932.00 savings per year....If you paid 30k for the Accura, you'll break even in about 15 years...lol

I saw that coming around the corner and a mile away , but that's a fact .

[ShowSStopper]

Originally Posted by CAMAROZL1

At 6'7" and at 280 pounds, you are not in the national average of an American. The fact that the Volt cannot suit you is no fault of it's own. It's interior and packaging was based on the average height and weight of an American which is about 168-189 lbs and the height is 5 foot and 10 inches according to my sources.

The price is reasonable in accordance to the many costs involved in making the Chevrolet Volt reach the production line. Chevrolet is NOT the only car company that stretches the cost of production over the lifetime of the vehicle. For example:

Why do you think many vehicle platforms are shared?

Engines for that matter?

The Nissan Leaf's technology is not comparable to the Chevrolet Volt because due to it's range, it is ONLY a reasonable city car at best. Good luck using the leaf during the wintertime! The Chevrolet Volt is an electric vehicle without compromises! The only other manufacturers that can say the same thing is Tesla and Fisker and look at what THEY charge for their cars.

The new upcoming electric vehicles that are coming to challenge the Volt are going to be sold in the SAME price range! Your comment on fires? Get over it, it's as flammable as the Toyota Prius and GM has fixed the small issues such as the wires to customers as quickly as possible.

Hydrogen vehicles? Yes, neat things that run on water. However, to be able to contain and store that fuel safely is EXPENSIVE due to rare earth materials. There are other factors that hinders hydrogen as a fuel source. GM has been trying to crack the code to inexpensive mass production of hydrogen vehicles before Honda and others. It is an on-going investigation of research and development.

Regarding the comment on GM stock, I'll let Ed Whitacre speak:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...477733900.html

Stocks are devilish things. It's a difficult and frustrating thing to manage. Look at facebook's stock. It was greatly unveiled with great promises and look at it now: It has plummeted 45% in value. The only company that has been able to skyrocket in value is Apple and that is RARE. If everyone knew how to increase stock value: GM, Facebook, Blackberry and others would not be talking about declining stock value and everyone would be rich! Life is not that simple kiddo.

JD Power and Associates are a JOKE. I'll let Motor Trend speak on my behalf:

http://blogs.motortrend.com/j-d-powe...ity-25937.html

Please, be informed! The world is much more complicated than you will ever know! I know that you don't hate American companies, proof is in the Camaro that you own, but it baffles me greatly on how misinformed you are.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______________________________

I apologize for the rant, OP and Mods! My last post on this topic. Just felt it needed to be said.

Nice assumption.



At any rate, you are entitled to your opinion. Unlike you though, I will not be disrespecting you in this reply.



I'm through posting on this topic. Can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.