How Can This Be? - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

Blueclyde · 08-26-2012, 06:31 PM

I was reading through the July 12 M/T mag and it had a road test review on the 2013 BMW M5. Their performance numbers showed this 550hp/500 ft lb 4384lb curb weight car running the 1/4 mile in 11.9 @ 120.3 mph. How can a heavier car with 56 ft lbs less torque obtain these numbers? The numbers, to me, do not seem out of line. I just wonder why we have not seen any numbers like this with the ZL1. Seems like the ZL1 should be at worst equal.

MEDISIN · 08-26-2012, 06:34 PM

The twin turbo V8 is probably putting down more power than you think. Combine that with an 8-speed DCT and you have your sub 12 sec quarter mile. Only cost $90k.

oldfriend · 08-26-2012, 06:36 PM

GM also said that the ZL1 had run at 11.9 , so....

Stephen12ZL1 · 08-26-2012, 06:40 PM

it has to do with the "power and torque under the curve". Peak torque with these twin turbo BMWs and MBs is barely above idle and with the ZL1 it is at 4200rpm...huge real world difference. That equates to a few tenths in the 1/4 mile.

CAMAROZL1 · 08-26-2012, 06:40 PM

its all has to do with how the engine was built. The dyno sheet between the BMW V8 and the Chevy V8 must look different although they achieve similar horsepower. For example the torque curve must be different and possibly better in the BMW.

The other MAJOR factor is the transmission.

Rubble2240 · 08-26-2012, 07:32 PM

Weird also...MT pulled a 12.1 with the Zl1 and nobody is pulling that at the track

jimmy5 · 08-26-2012, 07:56 PM

Anyone know if MT used corrected numbers?

CAMAROZL1 · 08-26-2012, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rubble2240

Weird also...MT pulled a 12.1 with the Zl1 and nobody is pulling that at the track

There's a LOT of variables, which is something that people can't understand. The Chevy 11.9 and Motor Trend's 12.1 were probably under ideal conditions with a PROFESSIONAL driver behind the wheel.

Rubble2240 · 08-27-2012, 05:26 AM

MT showed the 12.1 on the best drivers car drag race

sammyv · 08-27-2012, 08:54 AM

I think most magazines use a correction formula for their exceleration numbers.

2ndCamaro79 · 08-27-2012, 10:40 AM

I posted the motor trend vid of the new m5 in the general section awhile back. That car is a beast and a big luxury pig. I get what ur saying OP, and I still believe the zl1 is leaving something on the table. I think any of the V series cars could take the Z, and that should not be either?

SSDan · 08-27-2012, 12:53 PM

High performance BMWs are always heavy and fast. Check out the transmission gear ratios compared to our Tremec 6060 ratios. That is an important part of the story. The BMW "M" cars usually have very aggressive gear ratios for the first 2-3 gears to get their cars out of the hole and on down the track. Plus they often have a high redline so that they can pull that better gear ratio a little longer between shifts. Its a deadly combo - better gearing for acceleration and higher redlines to leverage it.

Oh - And it really ticks me off too!

NASTY99Z28 · 08-27-2012, 01:58 PM

What’s Hot:
Responsive, high-revving turbocharged engine
Excellent handling
Able to customize drivetrain/chassis setup to your style
What’s Not:
Tame exterior styling
Slightly numb on-center steering
BMW M5 »
» Overview
» Photos & 360° View
» Specs
» Prices w/Options
2013 BMW M5
Specifications
List price est $100,000
* *
Curb weight est 4288 lb
* *
Wheelbase 116.7 in.
* *
Length 193.3 in.
* *
Width 74.4 in.
* *
Height 57.3 in.
* *
Coefficient of drag 0.33
* *
Engine & Drivetrain
Type alum. block & heads, variable valve timing & lift, dohc 4-valve/cyl twin-turbo longitudinal V-8
* *
Displacement 4395 cc
* *
Bore x stroke 88.3 x 89.0 mm
* *
Compression ratio 10.0:1
* *
Horsepower (SAE) 560 bhp @ 6000–7000 rpm
* *
Weight-to-power ratio 7.66 lb/hp
* *
Torque 502 lb-ft @ 1500–5750 rpm
* *
Redline/limiter 7200/7200 rpm
* *
Fueling direct injection
* *
Recommended fuel premium
* *
Transmission 7-speed dual-clutch automated manual
* *
Chassis & Body
Layout front engine/rear drive
* *
Body/frame unit steel w/aluminum hood, fenders & doors
* *
Brakes, f/r 15.7-in. vented, floating & drilled rotors, 6-piston fixed calipers/15.6-in. vented, floating & drilled rotors, 1-piston sliding calipers
* *
Wheels cast alloy; 19 x 9 f, 19 x 10 r
* *
Tires Michelin Pilot Super Sport; 265/40ZR-19 102Y f, 295/35ZR-19 104Y r
* *
Steering rack & pinion, hydraulic assist
* *
Steering ratio 18.0:1
* *
Suspension, f/r upper & lower control arms, coil springs, elect. adj tube shocks, anti-roll bar/multilink, coil springs, elect. adj tube shocks, anti-roll bar

Just take a look at its torque numbers and how long it last. When Chevy and ford go turbo insteadp of super chargers prepare for things to get silly fast in a hurry. Also having that extra gear helps move all that weight while still maintaining decent mpg's.

mr02Z/28 · 08-27-2012, 05:09 PM

LoL..... a sub-12 sec Camaro ZL1 claim by GM........Kinda sounds like a marketing strategy......would you buy a $60,000 Camaro if they told you it runs a 12.65 @ 113mph ??? or would you be seriously more inclined after you saw the GM video about them running a 11.91(or somewhere in that region)......

08-26-2012, 06:31 PM	#1
Blueclyde Drives: 2023 ZLE Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Detroit Posts: 1,717	How Can This Be? I was reading through the July 12 M/T mag and it had a road test review on the 2013 BMW M5. Their performance numbers showed this 550hp/500 ft lb 4384lb curb weight car running the 1/4 mile in 11.9 @ 120.3 mph. How can a heavier car with 56 ft lbs less torque obtain these numbers? The numbers, to me, do not seem out of line. I just wonder why we have not seen any numbers like this with the ZL1. Seems like the ZL1 should be at worst equal.

08-26-2012, 06:34 PM	#2
MEDISIN Drives: 2011 CTS-V Sedan Join Date: May 2009 Location: Chapel Hill, NC Posts: 1,505 View My Garage	The twin turbo V8 is probably putting down more power than you think. Combine that with an 8-speed DCT and you have your sub 12 sec quarter mile. Only cost $90k. __________________ 2012 - Present: 2011 CTS-V Sedan, A6, Airaid, Zmax TB and Tune by R.P.M. = 535 hp/503 lb-ft. 2009 - 2012: 2010 2SS RS IBM M6, MGW Shifter, BMR Trailing Arms/Tunnel Brace, Roto-Fab CAI, VMAX Ported TB, Kooks 6511-Complete (Headers, X-Pipe, Mufflers), dyno tuned by R.P.M. = 415 hp/412 lb-ft. "Not giving a f^k is truly the greatest luxury, and no luxury car gives fewer f^k's than a CTS-V." - Matt Hardigree

08-26-2012, 06:40 PM	#4
Stephen12ZL1 Drives: '21 ZLE A10 Join Date: May 2012 Location: Mechanicsville, VA Posts: 6,808	it has to do with the "power and torque under the curve". Peak torque with these twin turbo BMWs and MBs is barely above idle and with the ZL1 it is at 4200rpm...huge real world difference. That equates to a few tenths in the 1/4 mile. __________________ '21 ZLE A10 Wild Cherry PDR 2:00.78 VIR Full 10.68@131.69 1.68 60' '17 ZL1 A10 Mosaic Black PDR/Nav 2:03.08 VIR Full 11.003@129.2 1.75 (sold) '15 Z/28 #325 Black a/c & stereo. 2:10.1 VIR Full (sold) '12 ZL1 A6 Black 10.52@131 1.55 60' 2:13 VIR Full (sold)

08-26-2012, 06:40 PM	#5
CAMAROZL1 Drives: Point A to B Car until ZL1 Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: PA Posts: 194	its all has to do with how the engine was built. The dyno sheet between the BMW V8 and the Chevy V8 must look different although they achieve similar horsepower. For example the torque curve must be different and possibly better in the BMW. The other MAJOR factor is the transmission. __________________

08-27-2012, 12:53 PM	#12
SSDan Drives: 2016 1SS 6MT NPP Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Lake Murray, SC Posts: 2,245 View My Garage	High performance BMWs are always heavy and fast. Check out the transmission gear ratios compared to our Tremec 6060 ratios. That is an important part of the story. The BMW "M" cars usually have very aggressive gear ratios for the first 2-3 gears to get their cars out of the hole and on down the track. Plus they often have a high redline so that they can pull that better gear ratio a little longer between shifts. Its a deadly combo - better gearing for acceleration and higher redlines to leverage it. Oh - And it really ticks me off too! __________________ 2016 Camaro 1SS Hyper Blue 6MT NPP 2010 Camaro 2SS Cam/Headers/CAI/3.91 gears 476 rwhp/440 rwtq (sold)

08-26-2012, 06:36 PM	#3
oldfriend Drives: Fiat 500 E Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: 32.7607/N. 16.95947/W Posts: 7,816 View My Garage	GM also said that the ZL1 had run at 11.9 , so....

08-26-2012, 07:32 PM	#6
Rubble2240 Drives: 13 BRM ZL1 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Florida Posts: 127	Weird also...MT pulled a 12.1 with the Zl1 and nobody is pulling that at the track

08-26-2012, 07:56 PM	#7
jimmy5 Drives: 2012 ZL1 #450 Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Big Spring, TX Posts: 479	Anyone know if MT used corrected numbers?

08-27-2012, 05:26 AM	#9
Rubble2240 Drives: 13 BRM ZL1 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Florida Posts: 127	MT showed the 12.1 on the best drivers car drag race

08-27-2012, 08:54 AM	#10
sammyv Drives: 2013 red Lingenfelter ZL1 Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: zionsville IN Posts: 567	I think most magazines use a correction formula for their exceleration numbers.

08-27-2012, 10:40 AM	#11
2ndCamaro79 Drives: 2014 V-Sport/ 2015 Escalade Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Virginia Posts: 939	I posted the motor trend vid of the new m5 in the general section awhile back. That car is a beast and a big luxury pig. I get what ur saying OP, and I still believe the zl1 is leaving something on the table. I think any of the V series cars could take the Z, and that should not be either?

08-27-2012, 01:58 PM	#13
NASTY99Z28 Drives: 99z28 with bolt-ons and a mwc fab 9 Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Florida Posts: 1,277	What’s Hot: Responsive, high-revving turbocharged engine Excellent handling Able to customize drivetrain/chassis setup to your style What’s Not: Tame exterior styling Slightly numb on-center steering BMW M5 » » Overview » Photos & 360° View » Specs » Prices w/Options 2013 BMW M5 Specifications List price est $100,000 * * Curb weight est 4288 lb * * Wheelbase 116.7 in. * * Length 193.3 in. * * Width 74.4 in. * * Height 57.3 in. * * Coefficient of drag 0.33 * * Engine & Drivetrain Type alum. block & heads, variable valve timing & lift, dohc 4-valve/cyl twin-turbo longitudinal V-8 * * Displacement 4395 cc * * Bore x stroke 88.3 x 89.0 mm * * Compression ratio 10.0:1 * * Horsepower (SAE) 560 bhp @ 6000–7000 rpm * * Weight-to-power ratio 7.66 lb/hp * * Torque 502 lb-ft @ 1500–5750 rpm * * Redline/limiter 7200/7200 rpm * * Fueling direct injection * * Recommended fuel premium * * Transmission 7-speed dual-clutch automated manual * * Chassis & Body Layout front engine/rear drive * * Body/frame unit steel w/aluminum hood, fenders & doors * * Brakes, f/r 15.7-in. vented, floating & drilled rotors, 6-piston fixed calipers/15.6-in. vented, floating & drilled rotors, 1-piston sliding calipers * * Wheels cast alloy; 19 x 9 f, 19 x 10 r * * Tires Michelin Pilot Super Sport; 265/40ZR-19 102Y f, 295/35ZR-19 104Y r * * Steering rack & pinion, hydraulic assist * * Steering ratio 18.0:1 * * Suspension, f/r upper & lower control arms, coil springs, elect. adj tube shocks, anti-roll bar/multilink, coil springs, elect. adj tube shocks, anti-roll bar Just take a look at its torque numbers and how long it last. When Chevy and ford go turbo insteadp of super chargers prepare for things to get silly fast in a hurry. Also having that extra gear helps move all that weight while still maintaining decent mpg's. __________________ I like my woman like my milk shakes, THICK!!!!

08-27-2012, 05:09 PM	#14
mr02Z/28 Drives: 2002 Z/28,1968 Chevelle convert. Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Phila.,PA Posts: 1,141 View My Garage	LoL..... a sub-12 sec Camaro ZL1 claim by GM........Kinda sounds like a marketing strategy......would you buy a $60,000 Camaro if they told you it runs a 12.65 @ 113mph ??? or would you be seriously more inclined after you saw the GM video about them running a 11.91(or somewhere in that region)......