[Lazerbrainz2k3]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

If you think putting Z/28 badges on the ZL1 1LE will satisfy people that want the Z/28, you really don't understand what it is they want.

Considering everything else the ZL1 1LE offers, if it's just a NA LS7 successor , Z/28 fans should have seen the writing on that particular wall when the other LS7- using GM car went with a supercharger instead

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by Lazerbrainz2k3

Considering everything else the ZL1 1LE offers, if it's just a NA LS7 successor , Z/28 fans should have seen the writing on that particular wall when the other LS7- using GM car went with a supercharger instead

Yeah, its called abandoning heritage to chase sales, and that's how you end up with a 3500 lbs track Corvette that overheats on the track.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

Yeah, its called abandoning heritage to chase sales, and that's how you end up with a 3500 lbs track Corvette that overheats on the track.

Don't forget that the Gen5 ZL1 was up to the very last minute going to be the Z28. It was all set to be announced at the Chicago Auto Show. At the (again) very last minute Mark Reuss made the decision that the Z28 had to be NA. So GM then went out and had buy back the ZL1 name which they had sold off at some point.

So for all the people that continue to complain (understatement) that GM has no car people, one of the people I have had the most respect for in my career is still there and fighting for product.

[Lazerbrainz2k3]

Kinda hard to argue that not having a Z/28 was done to chase sales that in and of itself the 5th gen Z/28 wasn't exactly doing much to accomplish either.

No, it's called engineering progress, and it tends to happen in all things. That doesn't mean it's always perfect the first time through, the overheating was an engineering error, but they did fix that, and how many Z06s and ZL1s have you heard of overheating since then?

There's also a regulatory aspect (emissions and all) and am economical one - design, test and get approval for a whole new engine intended for one or two very low volume models, versus upgrade an existing one and throw a supercharger on it, then sell it in three models for a little more sales volume.

The ZL1 1LE combines the best parts of what made the 5th gen Z/28 great where engineering progress hadn't come up with anything better yet, like the DSSV dampeners, and adds the advantages of areas where progress has happened, the engine being 29% more powerful and 35% torquier, and all you lose is one heritage badge for a combined pair of other heritage badges.

[Gen6_1Le]

Originally Posted by wjones14

I've said this before, but it's sad that a new Z28 or ZL1 is out of reach for most buyers. In the good old days, a Z28 was very affordable - I had 3 of them, 2 new and the other a year old - and all of them were awesome and reasonably priced.


When the Z28 was resurrected with the 5th gen, it was like $70K plus. That's Porsche territory. IF the new one was built, how much would it be? $80K? Great amazing car for sure, but at that price, most folks are starting to look for something more exotic.

The 5th gen Z28 should have never happened, but i do believe if there could have been a 6th gen it could have been priced under the ZL1 . The way i look at over the history of Camaro and where it is now the Z28 should be placed as the entry level of the V8s then the SS and SS/1Le with the Zl1 at top .

[V8 Firebird]

I see that GM is trying to break the rules for Camaro, but they still promise that they won't break its original trims.

Seems Z28 isn't going to happen, but that doesn't sound that they wouldn't give Camaro a new top-level in future.

[Infamus]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

If you think putting Z/28 badges on the ZL1 1LE will satisfy people that want the Z/28, you really don't understand what it is they want.

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

Yeah, its called abandoning heritage to chase sales, and that's how you end up with a 3500 lbs track Corvette that overheats on the track.

This is fact...

The Z28 is as basic to the Camaro line like the SS is, plain and simple.

Heritage.

[Lazerbrainz2k3]

Originally Posted by Infamus

This is fact...

The Z28 is as basic to the Camaro line like the SS is, plain and simple.

Heritage.

And yet GM abandoned the SS badge in 1972, replacing it with a "Z28" that kept the heritage badge (more or less) while throwing aside the dedicated purpose and special equipment which made the original Z/28 special in the first place. In the name of chasing sales, GM made it so EVERYONE who wanted a V8 Camaro could have the famous Z28 badge on its fenders, no matter how soft and not really track worthy most of them were.

It was almost a quarter century before the SS badge kinda came back (on the SLP modified option, basically filling the role which that heritage would have dictated as belonging to a Z/28) for a few years, before the Camaro's 2002 cancellation.

The 5th gen pretty much restored everything to how it was in the first generation, even eventually bringing out a Z/28 with the right badge and right role in the lineup... and people whose idea of heritage skips what the Z/28 originally meant complained about its price making it out of reach for mainstream buyers, unlike the Z28s they remember from years before that honored the heritage of a name and pretty much nothing else.

The point is, GM has deviated from heritage before, and the universe hasn't collapsed into a black hole over it. Myself, I find what GM did from 1972 until 2009 far worse than offering a Camaro version filling the Z/28's traditional role with a blower on it, whatever the badge on that car may be.

[Gunkk]

Which is exactly why a LT5 powered Z/28 would make a perfect 55th anniversary present!!!

[doc7000]

To be honest when sales are down is when you build your cars more aimed at niches as opposed to just producing junk that everyone will buy.



Sure you may not get those sales volume however you can get margin by making some really good niche vehicles. It doesn't even have to cost alot as they can just take the ZL1 1LE put the LT1 Camaro front end on it with ceramic brakes and drop about 300 pounds (compared to the ZL1 1Le). Really all it needs at this point that would need to be developed is an engine, maybe use the 7 speed DCT as optional on the car and you are done.

[Gen6_1Le]

Originally Posted by doc7000

To be honest when sales are down is when you build your cars more aimed at niches as opposed to just producing junk that everyone will buy.



Sure you may not get those sales volume however you can get margin by making some really good niche vehicles. It doesn't even have to cost alot as they can just take the ZL1 1LE put the LT1 Camaro front end on it with ceramic brakes and drop about 300 pounds (compared to the ZL1 1Le). Really all it needs at this point that would need to be developed is an engine, maybe use the 7 speed DCT as optional on the car and you are done.

All you would have to do to make 90% of the people happy is add some cheap plastic bits of aero, some stickers and of course a automatic because most can't drive a stick and we all know the auto is faster on a drag strip which the Z28 was designed for .

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Gen6_1Le

All you would have to do to make 90% of the people happy is add some cheap plastic bits of aero, some stickers and of course a automatic because most can't drive a stick and we all know the auto is faster on a drag strip which the Z28 was designed for .

.

[Red Chief]

Originally Posted by wjones14

I've said this before, but it's sad that a new Z28 or ZL1 is out of reach for most buyers. In the good old days, a Z28 was very affordable - I had 3 of them, 2 new and the other a year old - and all of them were awesome and reasonably priced.


When the Z28 was resurrected with the 5th gen, it was like $70K plus. That's Porsche territory. IF the new one was built, how much would it be? $80K? Great amazing car for sure, but at that price, most folks are starting to look for something more exotic.

This whole mess started with the 5th gen. Nobody in the general public has ever heard of a ZL1 or a 1LE.

They're back at it again with the LT1. It even confuses people here.

The ONLY car I ever get to talk about with non-enthusiasts is the Hellcat. Nobody cares if it's a coffin on wheels. All they know is they remember the name Hellcat.

"Bumble Bee" doesn't sound like a marketing stroke of genius for a sports car but normal people remembered it. That's what everybody called my 2012 Camaro even though mine was black.

I rest my case.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Red Chief

This whole mess started with the 5th gen. Nobody in the general public has ever heard of a ZL1 or a 1LE.

They're back at it again with the LT1. It even confuses people here.

The ONLY car I ever get to talk about with non-enthusiasts is the Hellcat. Nobody cares if it's a coffin on wheels. All they know is they remember the name Hellcat.

"Bumble Bee" doesn't sound like a marketing stroke of genius for a sports car but normal people remembered it. That's what everybody called my 2012 Camaro even though mine was black.

I rest my case.

What case are you resting exactly? That Chevrolet needs to name the car????