[xc_SS/RS]

I really like how they show the underside of the car. Like how they have covered the bottom of the rear bumper to help with aero. Always wondered why cars never had that before. Helps with fuel efficiency as well as performance.

[NASTY99Z28]

I can't wait to see what the exhaust system weighs compared to aftermarket setups. That muffler is HUGE!!!!

[GretchenGotGrowl]

Originally Posted by King T

That muffler.

Originally Posted by NASTY99Z28

I can't wait to see what the exhaust system weighs compared to aftermarket setups. That muffler is HUGE!!!!

No kidding. We have suitcases, they have a steamer trunk!

[G8GT4now]

That's not a muffler, its a golf bag carrying case!

[Bizaro]

Now I partly see the reason why this car sounds like crap the muffler is the size of a dinosaur

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

How is this supposed to compete with them M3/4 if it's 200 lbs heavier?

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

Same way the 1LE spanked the Boss302 around the track.

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

Uh, the 1LE beat the BOSS because it had better tires and suspension.

Exactly. You answered his question: There's far more to a car than a nominal value of weight.

M4 does 0-60 in 4.2...ATS-V 3.9.
M4 has 430hp...ATS-V has 464.
Both cars share similar chassis-management technologies

Could go on. And we don't know the exact weight of this car just yet, either.

I have high hopes!

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

Exactly. You answered his question: There's far more to a car than a nominal value of weight.

M4 does 0-60 in 4.2...ATS-V 3.9.
M4 has 430hp...ATS-V has 464.
Both cars share similar chassis-management technologies

Could go on. And we don't know the exact weight of this car just yet, either.

I have high hopes!

My point was that isn't a good comparison. The M4 is not running around on a stick axle and not enough tire. The M3/4 is the gold standard when it comes to these cars. You don't win by just barely being better. Very few people are going to stop buying the M3/4 because the ATS-V is as good.

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by GretchenGotGrowl

That muffler.


No kidding. We have suitcases, they have a steamer trunk!

Coming soon to a Camaro near you!

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

My point was that isn't a good comparison. The M4 is not running around on a stick axle and not enough tire. The M3/4 is the gold standard when it comes to these cars. You don't win by just barely being better. Very few people are going to stop buying the M3/4 because the ATS-V is as good.

Some people will continue to buy the M4 whether or not there's something else as good or better. Cadillac can't win over those people.

But...if it can be as good, or even just a hair better...and undercut the price - that makes a statement. And with a statement, plus some time, Cadillac wins over some curious buyers.

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

My point was that isn't a good comparison. The M4 is not running around on a stick axle and not enough tire. The M3/4 is the gold standard when it comes to these cars. You don't win by just barely being better. Very few people are going to stop buying the M3/4 because the ATS-V is as good.

But some people who wouldn't own a BMW because, well, BMW, will be all over the ATS-V.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

My point was that isn't a good comparison. The M4 is not running around on a stick axle and not enough tire. The M3/4 is the gold standard when it comes to these cars. You don't win by just barely being better. Very few people are going to stop buying the M3/4 because the ATS-V is as good.

But you asked how can it compete with the M3/M4 ... not how can it completely and utterly dominate in every single possible way so that nobody would ever think of buying an M3/M4.

[King Sun]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

But you asked how can it compete with the M3/M4 ... not how can it completely and utterly dominate in every single possible way so that nobody would ever think of buying an M3/M4.

brands like BMW are status symbols at this point. Its going to take years for caddi to catch that market share.

[Bizaro]

But some people who wouldn't own a BMW because, well, BMW,

They wouldnt own one because they have never driven an M car not because its 'BMW'


Anyways, Cadi is not going to steal any BMW customers im sure. When you buy an M car you are buying into the brand and pedigree as much as you're buying into the actual car. Cadi can compete and out compete the M car thats true. It can also persuade new buyers in the segment with purchasing the Cadi over the M car but they will NEVER be able to steal exisiting M car owners im sure.

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Originally Posted by Bizaro

They wouldnt own one because they have never driven an M car not because its 'BMW'

Anyways, Cadi is not going to steal any BMW customers im sure. When you buy an M car you are buying into the brand and pedigree as much as you're buying into the actual car. Cadi can compete and out compete the M car thats true. It can also persuade new buyers in the segment with purchasing the Cadi over the M car but they will NEVER be able to steal exisiting M car owners im sure.

I think you are right, few, if any, BMW owners will switch to the Cadillac. But for people like me, who wouldn't be caught dead in a BMW, the ATS-V fits the bill nicely. (And yes, I have driven them. And yes, they are awesome. And no, it doesn't matter.)

There's an old joke - What's the difference between a Porsche and a porcupine? The porcupine has the pricks on the outside.

Could also apply to BMW.