[Shorty45]

I’d be curious to see how each M6 owners clutches hold up? I already replaced mine at 7700. Granted, I raced mine. I also tested the hell out of it. But I still think the amount of power or timing being pulled, has to have some impact on them being worn out early. I’d don’t know...maybe.

[Gunkk]

Originally Posted by Shorty45

I’d be curious to see how each M6 owners clutches hold up? I already replaced mine at 7700. Granted, I raced mine. I also tested the hell out of it. But I still think the amount of power or timing being pulled, has to have some impact on them being worn out early. I’d don’t know...maybe.

If you're slipping at higher revs to minimize the bog, then I would agree that the clutch life will be shorter, as it's taking one for the team.

It's a natural consequence of "we honor the warranty at the track." They have engineered the car and it's control systems to protect the drive train from the driver (at the track, etc.). So they ended up with the consequences: driveability (bog) and the wearable bits (clutches).

Kittys throw driveshafts. 2018 Mustangs with their incredibly hard launching will turn out to have something fail ... it's just a matter of time. And since neither FCA nor Ford honor the warranty at the track, they don't give a rats.

If GM gives us back the driveability (eliminate the bog completely) then driveline stuff will most certainly break. And then they'll have to rescind the track warranty or Molly will kick Al's ass.

So they have given that choice to us, the owners. Track your stock car all you want under warranty and live with the TM bog, or tune out the TM on your car and void the warranty. The problem is DD and light street driveability... and they should have been able to reduce the severity of the timing pull at lower dynamic torque. Obviously something kept them (or is keeping them) from doing that... some weak link in the driveline.

[travislambert]

Originally Posted by Gunkk

If you're slipping at higher revs to minimize the bog, then I would agree that the clutch life will be shorter, as it's taking one for the team.

It's a natural consequence of "we honor the warranty at the track." They have engineered the car and it's control systems to protect the drive train from the driver (at the track, etc.). So they ended up with the consequences: driveability (bog) and the wearable bits (clutches).

Kittys throw driveshafts. 2018 Mustangs with their incredibly hard launching will turn out to have something fail ... it's just a matter of time. And since neither FCA nor Ford honor the warranty at the track, they don't give a rats.

If GM gives us back the driveability (eliminate the bog completely) then driveline stuff will most certainly break. And then they'll have to rescind the track warranty or Molly will kick Al's ass.

So they have given that choice to us, the owners. Track your stock car all you want under warranty and live with the TM bog, or tune out the TM on your car and void the warranty. The problem is DD and light street driveability... and they should have been able to reduce the severity of the timing pull at lower dynamic torque. Obviously something kept them (or is keeping them) from doing that... some weak link in the driveline.

Most of what you say is true, but the M6 ZL1 has an issue that was not by design. I was told by one of the lead engineers on the Camaro team that it was an issue and that the '17 M6 ZL1s would be receiving a software update.

To your point something "is keeping them" from releasing the update. My guess is the cost of the update. Plus I believe the improvement would be significant. We'd probably go from 12.1-12.3 quarter miles to 11.5-11.8s. I'm sure they'd rather associate that improvement with the 7 Gen Camaro.

Drive a '17 M6 ZL1 at the dragstrip for a few passes. Once you do, it's obvious the car has a problem. It isn't just drivetrain protection at play. Hell, the A10s are almost a full second faster in the 1/4 mile. I'm sure the A10s have similar drivetrain protection. The A10 should be faster, but not a full second. It's obvious there's a problem.

[travislambert]

Hey guys.

If you're interested in a resolution to this problem. Please show your support for its corresponding Ask Al thread.

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=515791

I'm not exactly sure what the criteria is for getting it promoted to the official poll, but please post something in the thread. Even if it's just a "+1" to show your support.

Thanks!

[Infern0]

Originally Posted by travislambert

Hey guys.

If you're interested in a resolution to this problem. Please show your support for its corresponding Ask Al thread.

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=515791

I'm not exactly sure what the criteria is for getting it promoted to the official poll, but please post something in the thread. Even if it's just a "+1" to show your support.

Thanks!

Bobby - It would be awesome if you didn't mind adding the link to the original post as well...just so as this one gets buried it doesn't go overlooked by anyone who only reads the first post.

[Shorty45]

Been trying to think of things to keep the sections alive. I posted this in Travis’s Ask Al but I will also post here to see if anyone else has experienced this. Or maybe have something to add.
“Does anybody else’s manual take off from a stop without using the throttle? I mean in no way whatsoever?
Basically, I’m sitting at a stop and I just let clutch out slowly not even touching the gas until the clutch is fully engaged. You can do this in reverse as well. And on hills! I’ve never experienced this on any other car in my life. Maybe a tractor.
Anyways, if this is an option this might be the reason that the car boggs on takeoff. The torque mgt might be getting too much input from the throttle position at one time. It might be the explanation about why first gear feels so tall. It could also explain the difference in taking off each time and the car does not respond the same to your foot position. If that makes sense?”
Thoughts?

[hawk02]

Originally Posted by Shorty45

Been trying to think of things to keep the sections alive. I posted this in Travis’s Ask Al but I will also post here to see if anyone else has experienced this. Or maybe have something to add.
“Does anybody else’s manual take off from a stop without using the throttle? I mean in no way whatsoever?
Basically, I’m sitting at a stop and I just let clutch out slowly not even touching the gas until the clutch is fully engaged. You can do this in reverse as well. And on hills! I’ve never experienced this on any other car in my life. Maybe a tractor.
Anyways, if this is an option this might be the reason that the car boggs on takeoff. The torque mgt might be getting too much input from the throttle position at one time. It might be the explanation about why first gear feels so tall. It could also explain the difference in taking off each time and the car does not respond the same to your foot position. If that makes sense?”
Thoughts?

My ZLL can take off from a stop without any throttle input. Just have to let out the clutch nice and slow. My 2013 ZL1, which was also a manual, did the same thing so this is not a new to the 6th gen ZL1.

[Zeke.Malvo]

Originally Posted by Shorty45

Been trying to think of things to keep the sections alive. I posted this in Travis’s Ask Al but I will also post here to see if anyone else has experienced this. Or maybe have something to add.
“Does anybody else’s manual take off from a stop without using the throttle? I mean in no way whatsoever?
Basically, I’m sitting at a stop and I just let clutch out slowly not even touching the gas until the clutch is fully engaged. You can do this in reverse as well. And on hills! I’ve never experienced this on any other car in my life. Maybe a tractor.
Anyways, if this is an option this might be the reason that the car boggs on takeoff. The torque mgt might be getting too much input from the throttle position at one time. It might be the explanation about why first gear feels so tall. It could also explain the difference in taking off each time and the car does not respond the same to your foot position. If that makes sense?”
Thoughts?

My 2003 Cobra would do the same thing no problem. I was surprised at the time too, but after 15 years, I think just about any modern car can do that at this point.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[travislambert]

Let's do everything we can to ensure this topic makes it into the next Ask Al poll. If you haven't done so already, please post a "+1" or something similar into the Ask Al thread:

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=515791

When the time comes to select questions for the next poll, I'd like to make sure our view/post counts are representative of how we all feel about this issue.

"Ask Al" may be our best hope for a resolution.

Please post. It'll only take a few seconds.

Thanks again!

[davidcroft]

Just stumbled upon this thread. I got back from a track day event yesterday and watched my buddy with a '17 M6 bog real hard with heated up drag radials. I also have a drivability issue in my '18 M6 car with constant complaints when people drive my car.It seems like there is a double clutch engagement and it wanting to stall off the start. This makes total sense it's a software issue. A buddy of mine who had a '17 SS/1LE that drove mine stalled it. He said it was waaay different than his M6 SS. I also have stalled mine several times too. I am willing to bet the launch/drivability software issue isn't fixed for 2018 MY.

To clarify, I have not launched my car yet but the drivability off the line kinda sucks.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Shorty45

Been trying to think of things to keep the sections alive. I posted this in Travis’s Ask Al but I will also post here to see if anyone else has experienced this. Or maybe have something to add.
“Does anybody else’s manual take off from a stop without using the throttle? I mean in no way whatsoever?
Basically, I’m sitting at a stop and I just let clutch out slowly not even touching the gas until the clutch is fully engaged. You can do this in reverse as well. And on hills! I’ve never experienced this on any other car in my life. Maybe a tractor.

I think all of the cars I've owned that had EFI could be driven away from a full stop without using any throttle. The amount of slope tolerance did vary as some function of torque at idle and overall gearing, though. It's relatively easy to build a "stall-saver" routine into the programming, and this is something for which the resulting output is subject to calibration. Nominally it's there to prevent the engine from stalling when a heavy accessory load is suddenly applied, but a drive load ends up provoking the same response.

(moved out of the Ask Al thread)

Anyways, if this is an option this might be the reason that the car boggs on takeoff. The torque mgt might be getting too much input from the throttle position at one time. It might be the explanation about why first gear feels so tall. It could also explain the difference in taking off each time and the car does not respond the same to your foot position. If that makes sense?”
Thoughts?

If the eLSD is normally 'open', I suppose you could be getting a little one-wheel peel before it can be locked up (which you might feel happening). Just not enough to generate any tire noise. Perhaps the rear ABS wheel sensors are involved here, and there may be some tolerances involved that conspire against some cars more than others.

Does this happen on launches and street starts from a full stop made in 2nd gear?


Norm

[cwebster]

Originally Posted by bobby35ny

Lets keep this thread on topic please. Let us 2017 ZL1 M6 owners have a thread to ourselves to bring this issue front and center to the powers that be at GM. There is a definite problem with hard launches, the BOGGING down is just ridiculous. I've seen stock SS M6 cars getting better 0-60 numbers than the ZL1. Seems that the car is pulling way too much timing. Lets get some videos in this thread to show GM the problem.

Here is what we have so far. please pm me your video and I will add it to this post.

https://youtu.be/RDSAKoMhVNM

Yeah, that last clip was from one of my drag strip videos on YouTube. This has got to be the single most frustrating "feature" on my ZL1.

--Cal

[cwebster]

Originally Posted by travislambert

Most of what you say is true, but the M6 ZL1 has an issue that was not by design. I was told by one of the lead engineers on the Camaro team that it was an issue and that the '17 M6 ZL1s would be receiving a software update.

To your point something "is keeping them" from releasing the update. My guess is the cost of the update. Plus I believe the improvement would be significant. We'd probably go from 12.1-12.3 quarter miles to 11.5-11.8s. I'm sure they'd rather associate that improvement with the 7 Gen Camaro.

Drive a '17 M6 ZL1 at the dragstrip for a few passes. Once you do, it's obvious the car has a problem. It isn't just drivetrain protection at play. Hell, the A10s are almost a full second faster in the 1/4 mile. I'm sure the A10s have similar drivetrain protection. The A10 should be faster, but not a full second. It's obvious there's a problem.

I'm with Travis on this...

Sure I agree that the main purpose of the "Manual Transmission Protection" (MTP) feature is for Track Warranty Protection but I feel like it could have been (and can still be) calibrated for a higher torque with minimal risk. Even a slight increase could yield significantly better 60-ft times. As many others have said, it's embarrassing for Chevy to fall on its nose at track events all over the country.

Travis' research on the eLSD calibrations have convinced me that this part of the problem is not by design. It is one of those engineering ghosts that appear only after owners "wring out the bugs". Seems that this could very likely interact with the MTP logic to compound the bogging issues.

--Cal

[Jmueller]

I found a video where the bogging is so apparent, its sad. Listen to this motor just die off the launch.

https://youtu.be/Ppn2NfC9stE