[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by triggerjerk

Don't shoot the messenger! I am just repeating hearsay

But yeah, I see $80k+ totally doable- A heavily modified version of an already low production engine, huge brakes, that outsourced dct, etc, etc.

I also bet that GM follows recent trends and does nothing to counter. Hope I'm wrong.

Honestly, I don't think GM needs to counter.

They have too much power already. Unless you live by 1/4 mile at a time, I much more care about a balanced car. High HP cars lose that balance with the chassis.

GM still has the superior chassis and I doubt the GT500 will answer the ZL1 1LE.

RWD and 700 - 800+ HP, no thanks (unless you are racing it on tracks). The only way for them to keep it drivable is to make the gearing super high and nanny the shit out of it with traction/stability controls.

Maybe I am in the minority, but a fun car to me is not only being able to use half throttle in anything less than 4th gear to keep the tires from melting or to have it be bouncing off the traction control system all the time.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

The last GT500 had nowhere even close to the features and options that this one will have standard. So yes I do think it can reach $86K for a fully loaded GT500. The Base model with options should be around $75K from what I gather and that is IF the $86K price is accurate...but just my opinion. Basically, the ZL1 was $64K and the ZLE was $70K. So scaling it with the GT500, if the $86K is the MSRP after leveling up and throwing all the options at it, then the Base can be around $75K. I could be way off but we're all speculating here.

At $86K, even for a fully loaded upper level GT500, I will pass. It is too close to Z06 territory. And even considering the value and usage of the vehicle, a Trackhawk would be a better deal if you ask me. The GT500 would REALLY have to be a spectacular performer something of which none of us can even believe in order for it to be worth $86K. Or it would have to have tons of features. Because that is too close to the price of cars that have more practical use and luxury. Like I said before, at $90K you can get a 4 door M5 that runs high 10s and has a really good suspension and AWD. Why pay the same price for what you can say is a 2-seater, 2 door, RWD Mustang with no luxury??

I understand but lets look at the ZL1, 2015 model $55,505, 2018 model $61,500 look at all the improvements over the 5th Gen the present model has for a $6,000.00 premium. Do you really see Ford placing a $30,000+ premium over their last model?

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Col. Brain

GT350Rs were trading up around 100k with markups.

Ford saw that and wants in on the action.
Ford also saw an 85-90k Demon sellout 3,300 cars most of them well over the 100k mark as well.

People are dumb enough to pay the markups and so MFG will want their cut as well.

If you have to be the first on the block, this will be 100k car, unless you own the Ford dealership

But Ford/Dodge dont see any of that mark up. That goes all to the dealer.

I am going to hold out hope that the quote from the press release is accurate.

"As a Mustang it has to be attainable"

I agree 100% with Blaq, at past 80 you are looking at a bunch of other competitors and it would take some truly special performance numbers.

Originally Posted by newmoon

I understand but lets look at the ZL1, 2015 model $55,505, 2018 model $61,500 look at all the improvements over the 5th Gen the present model has for a $6,000.00 premium. Do you really see Ford placing a $30,000+ premium over their last model?

Agreed. I also don't see a 25K premium over the 350.

[Rodan]

Base price on a 2019 GT350R is $67k and change. Add the tech package and it's $70k.

Do you really think a GT500 will be less? $75-80 sticker is my guess, plus ADM.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by triggerjerk

I also bet that GM follows recent trends and does nothing to counter. Hope I'm wrong.

Gm has been done moved on. I'm sure they're not even thinking about the GT500 at this point. They're probably working on 8th or 9th Gen stuff at this time, lol!! besides, what is there to counter? Or, what need is there to counter when the ZL1 is basically in it's last 2 years of production for this Gen by the time the GT500 is released? It would be silly for them to try to make any kind of move. Which is why I say Ford was extremely late with this car.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Rodan

Base price on a 2019 GT350R is $67k and change. Add the tech package and it's $70k.

Do you really think a GT500 will be less? $75-80 sticker is my guess, plus ADM.

It could be, I might say it will be close or the same.

The R only has the Carbon Fiber wheels, tires, Aerodynamics and rear seat delete over the regular 350 and its roughly 8K more than the base 350

So I would say it would be better to base the "regular" GT500 off of the "regular" GT350 instead of the R.

So the base price of the 350 is 60,235. Do we really think the 500 is going to have 15-20K more worth of go fast goodies on it?

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Gm has been done moved on. I'm sure they're not even thinking about the GT500 at this point. They're probably working on 8th or 9th Gen stuff at this time, lol!! besides, what is there to counter? Or, what need is there to counter when the ZL1 is basically in it's last 2 years of production for this Gen by the time the GT500 is released? It would be silly for them to try to make any kind of move. Which is why I say Ford was extremely late with this car.

Agree Ford is late but people want them to do something because they didn't last time. People were mad that the LS9 was available when the 662HP GT500 debuted and GM stood pat with the 580HP LSA. Even when the Hellcat was announced with 707, nope they stayed with 580.

Same cycle now, the LT5 is there but looks like standing pat with the LT4

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Agree Ford is late but people want them to do something because they didn't last time. People were mad that the LS9 was available when the 662HP GT500 debuted and GM stood pat with the 580HP LSA. Even when the Hellcat was announced with 707, nope they stayed with 580.

Same cycle now, the LT5 is there but looks like standing pat with the LT4

And then every time someone makes more power then they'll have to answer again...and again...and again. And then what? Every year we'll have Camaros jumping up the HP just to stay ahead of their competitors? That would be a terrible financial move. GM worked wonders with 650 HP. The car was not made to ram horns with the Hellcat. Yet it holds it's own very well and if you ask me, has the advantage over a Hellcat. Yet it'll tear a Hellcat up on a track. So what more do people want? Even if GM did throw the LT5 in the ZL1 the MSRP would have jumped and then people would be complaining that it's too expensive and they can't afford it. And then they'll be criticizing GM for not leaving the LT4 in and claiming that the LT4 was good enough. LOL!!

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by newmoon

I understand but lets look at the ZL1, 2015 model $55,505, 2018 model $61,500 look at all the improvements over the 5th Gen the present model has for a $6,000.00 premium. Do you really see Ford placing a $30,000+ premium over their last model?

I watch a video from TFL at the show talking about the gt500. He asked the Ford guy on what car did they use to build the gt500, Dodge and the Camaro? Ford guy said they used the GT and the 350r and built the gt500 to bridge the Gap. So with the R at $70,000 with tech package, the GT500 will be well above that considering it has most everything the R has, plus supercharged, and DCT.

[SpeedIsLife]

The thing about the 2013 GT500 and ZL1 fight...the ZL1 didn't even need to hit 600 HP to counter the GT500..it was already the better car.

GM simply doesn't have a history of upping power levels in established vehicles as reactions to what competitors are doing. Only *once* in the last 20 years has GM changed engines mid generation.

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

The last GT500 had nowhere even close to the features and options that this one will have standard. So yes I do think it can reach $86K for a fully loaded GT500. The Base model with options should be around $75K from what I gather and that is IF the $86K price is accurate...but just my opinion. Basically, the ZL1 was $64K and the ZLE was $70K. So scaling it with the GT500, if the $86K is the MSRP after leveling up and throwing all the options at it, then the Base can be around $75K. I could be way off but we're all speculating here.

At $86K, even for a fully loaded upper level GT500, I will pass. It is too close to Z06 territory. And even considering the value and usage of the vehicle, a Trackhawk would be a better deal if you ask me. The GT500 would REALLY have to be a spectacular performer something of which none of us can even believe in order for it to be worth $86K. Or it would have to have tons of features. Because that is too close to the price of cars that have more practical use and luxury. Like I said before, at $90K you can get a 4 door M5 that runs high 10s and has a really good suspension and AWD. Why pay the same price for what you can say is a 2-seater, 2 door, RWD Mustang with no luxury??

Cheapest I can price an M5 is $103k. And why would a Track pack GT500 that "could" match a Z06 on a road course and highly likely beat a Z06 on a drag strip not be worth Z06 money?

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by newmoon

I understand but lets look at the ZL1, 2015 model $55,505, 2018 model $61,500 look at all the improvements over the 5th Gen the present model has for a $6,000.00 premium. Do you really see Ford placing a $30,000+ premium over their last model?

The GT500 for the S550 platform will be much more limited since it will be only 2 years. So that alone will make it worth more. Although the 13-14 was 2 MYs, it was still S197. So no points there. Plus the last GT500 had nowhere close to the tech that even the 5th Gen ZL1 had. Not only is the S550 platform more expensive because of the extra advanced tech, you're now adding on GT500 tech. Along with R&D etc. So yea I can definitely see the GT500 being $30K over the last one when fully optioned out.

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

Cheapest I can price an M5 is $103k. And why would a Track pack GT500 that "could" match a Z06 on a road course and highly likely beat a Z06 on a drag strip not be worth Z06 money?

Because a GT500 is not a Z06. Plain and simple. It isn't all about performance.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Agree Ford is late but people want them to do something because they didn't last time. People were mad that the LS9 was available when the 662HP GT500 debuted and GM stood pat with the 580HP LSA. Even when the Hellcat was announced with 707, nope they stayed with 580.

Same cycle now, the LT5 is there but looks like standing pat with the LT4

I understand your point that Chevy could have done something to increase power in the gen5 ZL1. Even short of a LS9, there was a lot of potential in the LSA that they didn’t tap.

Point is that Chevy Performance wasn’t idle and accomplished far more than Ford in the intervening time (below).

12 ZL1
13 1LE
14 Z/28
14 C7
15 Z06 - LT4
16 SS Alpha
17 1LE
17 ZL1
18 ZL1 1LE
19 ZR1
20 C8

12 Boss 302
13 GT500
15 GT S550
15 GT350
17 Ford GT.
18 GT refresh
18 GT PP2 (non track car. For when a PP or PP1 isn’t enough “street performance”)
20 GT500

Some of the same engineers work on Corvette and Camaro. Then add the Caddy V cars.

The next ZL1 is already in the works. Next stop for Chevy will be a jaw dropping C8

[vtirocz]

Aside from the engineering work to fit the LT5, integrate it, and tune everything around it , you also need to take into consideration the time it takes for them to certify the new powertrain (from an emission and OBD standpoint). That is big $$$, resources, and time that I don't see them investing on such a low volume car.

I hope I'm wrong though!

[crysalis_01]

Originally Posted by hotlap

I understand your point that Chevy could have done something to increase power in the gen5 ZL1. Even short of a LS9, there was a lot of potential in the LSA that they didn’t tap.

Point is that Chevy Performance wasn’t idle and accomplished far more than Ford in the intervening time (below).

12 ZL1
13 1LE
14 Z/28
14 C7
15 Z06 - LT4
16 SS Alpha
17 1LE
17 ZL1
18 ZL1 1LE
19 ZR1
20 C8

12 Boss 302
13 GT500
15 GT S550
15 GT350
17 Ford GT.
18 GT refresh
18 GT PP2 (non track car. For when a PP or PP1 isn’t enough “street performance”)
20 GT500

Some of the same engineers work on Corvette and Camaro. Then add the Caddy V cars.

The next ZL1 is already in the works. Next stop for Chevy will be a jaw dropping C8

I think your down playing how busy Ford Performance has been since 2010.

10 GT500 (540hp), SVT Raptor (5.4)
11 GT500 (550hp), SVT Raptor {6.2)
12/13 BOSS302, BOSS302LS, Focus ST
13/14 GT500, Fiesta ST
15 S550 GT, GT350, GT350R, Focus RS
17 FGT, FP Raptor (3.5)
19 Edge ST, Explorer ST
20 GT500, GT500 Carbon

This is only the North American offerings in this timeframe as well. There are/were additional offerings from Europe's TeamRS and Austrailia's FPV before their absorption into the Global Ford Performance moniker.

Neither of these companies are just sitting on their asses and twiddling their thumbs. Both GM and Ford... and anyone who wants to keep excitement in their showrooms are for sure putting in a ton of work. We as the consumers are the ones that get to kick back and enjoy the fruits of their labors.