MotorTrend Pits the ZL1 vs GT500 on the Street, Dragstrip, and Racetrack

[LeviG]

Originally Posted by VTXFrank

As far as the "We don't drive a 1/4 mile at a time" statement goes, that's just a completely misleading, fanboyish statement that people use when they aren't on top in the performance categories. When do you EVER drive your car on the street like you do on a course like this one? You won't come anywhere near taxing the brakes like MT did in this review, so that point is a worthless and ignorant one to make.

Its not a misleading and fanboyish thing to say. Watch the video again and start at about 15:30 and listen to about 15:50. WE are not the ones who said it. What's-his-face from MT said that. So you're calling HIM a misleading fanboy?? LOL! Why cant you 'Stang boys just accept your track victories and be done with it? I mean, face it. The only thing we (Camaro fans) really have on you at this point is that the ZL1 is more comfortable, and a better daily driver because of that. I'm sorry, but someone who was judging these two cars objectively said that. Not someone who is just a diehard Camaro fanboy.

And not on top performance in the performance categories? HA! The ZL1 did better in the curves and the GT500 did better in the straights. Looking at the lap times, I think we can call these cars about even, or close to it. I mean, the GT500 was only .5 seconds faster. But you still won! So get over yourself. We DON'T drive a 1/4 mile at a time, and we don't drive a 1:38 second lap time to work and back. The decision was not which car is better at the track. Obviously, the GT500 beat the ZL1 on the strip and at the roadcourse. The decision was based on which car was the better all around driver.

[LeviG]

Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro

The ZL1 does not have brake fade. The Mustang has break fade to the point that after one lap MT reported smelling the breaks cooking from the pits....

Yeah, no one here ever said the ZL1 had brake fade. It always been (in this topic) that the GT500 was the one with brake fade. Although, didn't they say something about how you could still drive the car well, it was just that the brakes only faded a little? I mean it didn't look to me like the brakes just dropped off completely and the thing wouldn't stop. it was still doing pretty well.

Also, take this into account. Something I hadn't thoguht of before:

Originally Posted by VTXFrank

Also, and don't get me wrong.....the ZL1 has some fantastic stock brakes compared to the GT500!!,.....but I wonder how well those brakes would hold up if the ZL1 had the same power numbers as the GT500? More power means having to reel in more forward energy which means physics wise, the GT500 outweighs the ZL1 when driven hard into a corner where late braking is preferred like on a road course or track. Higher entry speeds due to increased engine power means a LOT of heat.

[69NMYSS]

Originally Posted by VTXFrank

Sheiiiiit! With Japan's Fukushima Reactor #4 having the issues it does, and especially if they have another quake that further damages that reactor with all the stored rods, any HARM fired on the planet will immediately head to Asia.



Wow, nice story bro. You make that up all by your lonesome?



And you won't due to the narrow engine bays. The Mod motors are so wide, you'd have to do some major modifications to lower one between the fenders of a Camaro or other Chevy cars.



Very disappointing that the brakes go on lunch break so quickly. I'm sure that GT500 owners will address that issue with aftermarket parts pretty quick if they're tracking their cars.

As far as the "We don't drive a 1/4 mile at a time" statement goes, that's just a completely misleading, fanboyish statement that people use when they aren't on top in the performance categories. When do you EVER drive your car on the street like you do on a course like this one? You won't come anywhere near taxing the brakes like MT did in this review, so that point is a worthless and ignorant one to make.

Also, and don't get me wrong.....the ZL1 has some fantastic stock brakes compared to the GT500!!,.....but I wonder how well those brakes would hold up if the ZL1 had the same power numbers as the GT500? More power means having to reel in more forward energy which means physics wise, the GT500 outweighs the ZL1 when driven hard into a corner where late braking is preferred like on a road course or track. Higher entry speeds due to increased engine power means a LOT of heat.

Still though, I think Ford could, and should, have done a MUCH better job on the brakes.

You bring up a good point about the ZL1's brakes with increased power. BTW, I usually do not like the looks of the mustangs, but your GFX, wheels, and hood make that thing look pretty damn sweet.

[VTXFrank]

Originally Posted by LeviG

Its not a misleading and fanboyish thing to say. Watch the video again and start at about 15:30 and listen to about 15:50. WE are not the ones who said it. What's-his-face from MT said that. So you're calling HIM a misleading fanboy?? LOL! Why cant you 'Stang boys just accept your track victories and be done with it? I mean, face it. The only thing we (Camaro fans) really have on you at this point is that the ZL1 is more comfortable, and a better daily driver because of that. I'm sorry, but someone who was judging these two cars objectively said that. Not someone who is just a diehard Camaro fanboy.

And not on top performance in the performance categories? HA! The ZL1 did better in the curves and the GT500 did better in the straights. Looking at the lap times, I think we can call these cars about even, or close to it. I mean, the GT500 was only .5 seconds faster. But you still won! So get over yourself. We DON'T drive a 1/4 mile at a time, and we don't drive a 1:38 second lap time to work and back. The decision was not which car is better at the track. Obviously, the GT500 beat the ZL1 on the strip and at the roadcourse. The decision was based on which car was the better all around driver.

You won't hear me saying that either car is a clear winner overall. It will all come down to personal preferences, the drivers and the environment. Me personally, I want my car to be so visceral and brutish, it scares Prius drivers so badly they have to Armor-All their dashboards, Febreeze the interior and clean feces from their seats!

The comments I made about the statement, "We don't drive a 1/4 mile at a time in the real world" were directed more at the MT reviewer and the overall sentiment of the statement rather than any one individual who repeated it here.

Originally Posted by 69NMYSS

You bring up a good point about the ZL1's brakes with increased power. BTW, I usually do not like the looks of the mustangs, but your GFX, wheels, and hood make that thing look pretty damn sweet.

Thank you very much for the comments! Your car is a very clean looking ride as well!

In all honesty, I think that even if the Camaro had the same HP and TQ numbers, or a little higher than, that of the GT500, the brakes would still perform quite well. Not knowing what the pre-test conditions were is a little irritating though. There's already one video on here of a professional driver lapping a GT500 for 20 minutes without any brake fade just because he pulled out the crappy Ford stock brake fluid and used a decent product that wouldn't boil in the lines. If they were to do the same for the Camaro, use a race brake fluid that is, I bet the Camaro would be much more capable in late braking corner entries.

[Long Carbine]

Originally Posted by horizon670

I just loved what he said : ............. the Brakes go on vacation !...... for the GT500 !

and yes, you don't drive each 1/4 mile at a time !

Hehehehe, I really liked the part about driving a "bunker" as well.

Have you run your ZL1 on a road course yet?

[Long Carbine]

Originally Posted by tt335ci03cobra

Blower wine is very badass, I loved my eaton setup for all the same reasons. So fun to have it in second around 40mph, and floor it while passing a bus stop or a group of people on a sidewalk and scaring the ever loving shit out of people.

I still do that from time to time now with my wastegates and bov's while going under freeway ramps.

I was driving past a lemonade stand and the kids there did the burnout/tear ass spin it sign by spinning they're hands. The look on people's faces when they hear wastegates roar to life is like a deer in the headlights followed by huge grins. Same with blower wine, it's pretty cool when your car makes badass sounds that most people don't understand unless they're into cars.

Hehehehe, me and my buddy drove all over the mid-Atlantic to tracks in our 03's. I always followed him. He would ease up beside someone hanging out the door and mash on it. They would jump out of their skin. Also watched him scare the crap out farm animals like cows, horses........animals with fart pipes hanging off their asses.

I had a 2.2 KB on my 2003. It was pretty loud. When I put the 2.8 on my 2010 I was disappointed. It was quiet. It has helical gears. I just put a 3.6 on it. It has straight cut gears. It is twice as loud as a centrifuge blower. It sounds like an F-14 taxing for takeoff.

[101fng]

Originally Posted by tt335ci03cobra

Ford at 15, z's at 9.

Chevy could rock that car to 650hp in a heart beat, they should but who's to tell them what to do.

A 700zr1 would be child's play as well, then none of the stable is overly out done except the z06, but it's plenty faster than a 650hp zl1 to begin with even in a straight line. Z06's are faster than 575whp 2011 gt500's so I'm sure they can more than handle 575whp zl1's.

don't forget about the z's cast internals. it won't be handling shit without some forged parts

[SlingShot]

Originally Posted by 101fng

don't forget about the z's cast internals. it won't be handling shit without some forged parts

They seem to be able to handle 700hp without any issues ...

[tt335ci03cobra]

Originally Posted by 101fng

don't forget about the z's cast internals. it won't be handling shit without some forged parts

Might be the case but I've seen a few cts-v's and zl1's make 650hp pretty safely but obviously no way to know how long they'll last

[The IOM Ninja]

Originally Posted by VTXFrank

You won't hear me saying that either car is a clear winner overall. It will all come down to personal preferences, the drivers and the environment. Me personally, I want my car to be so visceral and brutish, it scares Prius drivers so badly they have to Armor-All their dashboards, Febreeze the interior and clean feces from their seats!

Well Pruis Drivers would be big enough idiots to use Armour-All....

[The IOM Ninja]

Double-Post Please Disregard

[The IOM Ninja]

Originally Posted by tt335ci03cobra

Might be the case but I've seen a few cts-v's and zl1's make 650hp pretty safely but obviously no way to know how long they'll last

I was always under the impression that boost is what caused stuff to start breaking, not more horsepower and I'm sure their are more efficient ways to make power then just upping the boost. Obviously I mean in the engine...

[IOMZL1]

Originally Posted by VTXFrank

You won't hear me saying that either car is a clear winner overall. It will all come down to personal preferences, the drivers and the environment. Me personally, I want my car to be so visceral and brutish, it scares Prius drivers so badly they have to Armor-All their dashboards, Febreeze the interior and clean feces from their seats!

Hmmm...

[tt335ci03cobra]

I

Originally Posted by The IOM Ninja

I was always under the impression that boost is what caused stuff to start breaking, not more horsepower and I'm sure their are more efficient ways to make power then just upping the boost. Obviously I mean in the engine...

Ya it's boost mainly but hypereutonic parts will only take so much in general, boost I the form of a blower just exacerbates the issue. Remember, if its a boosted setup with about 15psi making producing 700hp, internally it's operating against drag so it's developing around 875hp and 175 is literally used to spin the blower setup. Now if you stay at 9psi and do cam, heads, throttle body, intake, lower intake manifold, etc, you can also get 700hp and it will only be about 787hp factoring the parasitic drag and so on. That combo will last longer but it'll also be at higher rpm because of the cam and head combo needed to make those numbers. 787hp at 7,000rpms is quite stressful but probably abit better than 875hp at 6,000rpms longevity wise. In the end, anyone with $55k to buy a car probably has the money to build a $10k short block a year or two down the line if they want a 1,000hp beast. If cobra guys were able to and that socioeconomic bracket was lower ($25-30k cars, now $17k), I'm sure camaro guys will just drive it till it busts then rebuild a bigger bullet, probably with 7L or so and about 400ci. That would be what I would do if I had a zl1.

875 is too much force for hypereutonic internals to last a good while but with careful driving it could see 15,000 miles. A drag racer could blow it up in 150 though