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Old 11-23-2013, 09:34 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by NVmyZL1 View Post
So, help me out Ruby, what Nissan coupe did you buy that looks "sexy" or "sporty" as compared to some of the GM offerings? Personally, outside of possibly the Maxima, I find Nissan's offerings rather bland and boring.

It has a shape. Not just plain sides. It is not just shaped like a pill. I just don't get the trend of all cars looking like a pill & all trucks & SUV's looking like a box. I also prefer the look of the older GMC trucks/SUV's like the ones in the thread below. Build some shape into those fenders as well as the front & rear shapes. The Maxima is basicly the same shape as the Altima. It does not take a designer to come up with smooth sides & front with a little chrome slapped on it. It is great that Chevy spends most of their design budget on Camaro & Corvette, but a little more on the rest of the line would be great also. Here are pics of what I got. It seems a few C5 members agree with me.
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=325117
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Old 11-23-2013, 09:51 AM   #128
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The same could and sometimes is said by the V8 guys about anyone who chooses to drive a V6 Camaro or Mustang.

Look, I'm an old fart and a V8 guy through and through when it comes to what I buy for myself, but I also understand that the general automotive buyer today is a lot different than me, so I'm okay with manufacturers doing what they need to do to ensure they remain relevant in the 21st century rather than seeing the situation that occurred in the '70's happen again. Back then, the big three built the same types of cars they had always been building (large, heavy, mainly v8-powered) despite rapidly changing market conditions and those that were laughed at by those same organizations, Datsun, Toyota, etc. built cars that appealed to the times and, as a result, are now equally if players in global automotive sales.
I meant to say beat a camaro . But I agree ! we all change with times and a V6 was always offered not a 4 banger. But hey, a 4 Banger has been a part of the mustang life . So they can make them if they won't. To me it's no so much about the V8 HP but the growl of the V8 that I like. Which is why I will be getting a SS soon.

But the V6 wasn't about making more horsepower than the V8 , that's what you made it seem like with the 4 Banger having more horsepower than the V6 and V8. Which was never the V6 motive.
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Old 11-23-2013, 10:04 AM   #129
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Can you point me to where you found those statistics? Or maybe not, if you pulled them out of where I think you did.

Do a little research. made several upgrades/improvements to the Mustang between the 2005 and 2009 model years, despite no Camaro, just not in the area of horsepower.
I do be on the mustang forums and but I don't see many ppl saying they switch from a camaro to a mustang . like see on here with ppl saying they came from a mustang to a camaro. But no statistics. Darn you! LOL..
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Old 11-23-2013, 10:16 AM   #130
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Why wait and get complacent. ? GM is not waiting! I thought it was about being all you can be?
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Can you point me to where you found those statistics? Or maybe not, if you pulled them out of where I think you did.

Do a little research. Ford made several upgrades/improvements to the Mustang between the 2005 and 2009 model years, despite no Camaro, just not in the area of horsepower.
Didn't the Challenger come out around 2006? They were starting to have competition again in the pony car segment... Their competition isn't just the Camaro remember...
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Old 11-23-2013, 11:36 AM   #131
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So again, just so I'm clear, those who bought a V6 Camaro (or V6 Mustang, for that matter) should have bough a Camry instead because the Camaro is a Musclecar, and if you don't want a Camaro Musclecar, you have no right to buy one?!?!!?
Why do you keep bringing the V6 into this? No one is arguing against the V6, however a TTI4 is actually a threat to a V6, so if anyone is against a V6 it's the 4 cylinder fans. Also, does anyone even know if the 4 cylinder actually has better gas mileage than the V6 in the same car? I'd be willing to bet it doesn't.

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Mustang II was a sales success BTW. And the Mustang has never stopped production, and Ford was able to find private joey rather than turn to a Government for a bailout, so I'm quite sure they know what people want. I will give it to GM for being the world's largest automaker, but compare the range of offerings required to hold that position. I rather GM make more money, than sell more volume. I'd like to see both GM and Ford continue to do we'll, and I feel the anti $ bias is short-sighted and damaging to the future of the cars we love. There should laws be a V8 option, but without volume there will be no option at all.
You contradict yourself here. The Mustang II was a sales success, but GM gets knocked for having too many offerings? You'd like GM to put profits over volume, and yet you're arguing for a 4 cylinder car specifically for volume. You should listen to yourself.

GM needs to sell cars people want to buy. They don't have to reinvent the wheel.
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Old 11-23-2013, 11:42 AM   #132
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You're likely to see several 4banger Mustangs in the coming years, so you might want to stock up on Depends. What's funny though, is that you're very likely to also see those turbo 4's putting the smack down on older V6 and possibly V8 Camaros and Mustangs.
Definitely older V8 Mustangs, anyway.
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Old 11-23-2013, 12:09 PM   #133
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Definitely older V8 Mustangs, anyway.
Was watching an episode of Top Gear/BBC, and they dyno'd an old 350...... Then had to paint over the 350 because it was no longer even close. HP drops quickly w/age.


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Old 11-23-2013, 12:15 PM   #134
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You're likely to see several 4banger Mustangs in the coming years, so you might want to stock up on Depends. What's funny though, is that you're very likely to also see those turbo 4's putting the smack down on older V6 and possibly V8 Camaros and Mustangs.
That is probably most likely, turbo charged adds some zip, but it's still a four banger. Americans are known world wide for being LOUD, Arrogant, Aggressive, and Obnoxious! V-8s are like Apple Pie! Like driving a Harley, LOUD and mostly used to putt-putt around. It's not about if you're feeling good, it's all about as long as you're looking good!


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Old 11-23-2013, 06:56 PM   #135
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I still don't believe this whole thread.

Even if you guys want to argue about whether it will sell, I don't see Al making a statement so definitive about a product this early.

Also, why hasn't the automotive press picked this up? I don't see Jalopnik, Left Lane, Auto Week, Motor Trend, or anyone else posting stories about this and making a big deal.

Basically, what I want is proof. Show me some.
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Old 11-23-2013, 07:24 PM   #136
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They haven't picked up on it, because he never specifically mention anything regarding a 4 cylinder engine, let alone one in a Camaro. Besides, this thread is no longer about that topic anyway.
That's not quite how it works.....

Let's try and stay on topic: that is - the author's baseless assumption that there will be no four cylinder in the next-gen Camaro.

Sounds like wishful thinking on his part - and he attempted to make his own dreams come true by misusing Mr. Oppenheiser's comments on another topic.
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Old 11-23-2013, 07:30 PM   #137
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That's not quite how it works.....

Let's try and stay on topic: that is - the author's baseless assumption that there will be no four cylinder in the next-gen Camaro.

Sounds like wishful thinking on his part - and he attempted to make his own dreams come true by misusing Mr. Oppenheiser's comments on another topic.
Well he did say this.
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He also added that downsizing the car or the engine too much will stray too far from what the Camaro is all about, and make people question whether the car should continue on.

“We’ve established what the Camaro is. And if the Camaro ceases to become a Camaro, you’ve got to consider, do you take Camaro out in the future.”
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Old 11-23-2013, 07:34 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by NVmyZL1 View Post
They haven't picked up on it, because he never specifically mention anything regarding a 4 cylinder engine, let alone one in a Camaro. Besides, this thread is no longer about that topic anyway.
I know the topic has changed, but the core of this whole thread is built on calling out the chief engineer of our favorite car. His name is now associated with the idea that no 4-cylinder Camaro is planned. That's fine if it turns out to be true. If it's wrong, however, someone's going to call him a liar, and that's not okay.
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Old 11-23-2013, 07:41 PM   #139
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Well he did say this.
I understand, but where in that quote does it say "There will not be a four-cylinder"? The original author was...imho...irresponsibly bold in his reporting.

I am just afraid that people are reading in between the lines where there is nothing to read, imo. However...CAFE standards are real...the 2.0T ATS is real...

Take this quote for example:

"In the future – something I don’t think the public realizes yet – there may be a day when nobody: Ford, Chrysler or GM has a V8...."

So does that mean they're dropping the V8? No....but you could make an equally baseless argument against a V8 in the 6th-gen by this quote as the author has made against a four-cylinder using the "downisizing" comment.

Al and the rest of the Camaro team often refered to the entire Camaro lineup when describing the car's character, ability, or purpose; from LS to Z/28. I think that the entire lineup is what he is referring to in that statement...just thinking back to how I've seen these guys talk and act. If you substitute a T4 for the V6, just for example: that statement still means the same thing, and the Camaro, as a brand, is not changed.
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Old 11-23-2013, 08:02 PM   #140
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I understand, but where in that quote does it say "There will not be a four-cylinder"? The original author was...imho...irresponsibly bold in his reporting.

I am just afraid that people are reading in between the lines where there is nothing to read, imo. However...CAFE standards are real...the 2.0T ATS is real...

Take this quote for example:

"In the future – something I don’t think the public realizes yet – there may be a day when nobody: Ford, Chrysler or GM has a V8...."

So does that mean they're dropping the V8? No....but you could make an equally baseless argument against a V8 in the 6th-gen by this quote as the author has made against a four-cylinder using the "downisizing" comment.

Al and the rest of the Camaro team often refered to the entire Camaro lineup when describing the car's character, ability, or purpose; from LS to Z/28. I think that the entire lineup is what he is referring to in that statement...just thinking back to how I've seen these guys talk and act. If you substitute a T4 for the V6, just for example: that statement still means the same thing, and the Camaro, as a brand, is not changed.
I wonder though, what about the Corvette? At least in the beginning it started out as a 6 cylinder only, it may have to return to its roots so to speak..
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