Important 2016 turbo no lift shift info

Corner carver · 11-14-2017, 12:21 PM

Important 2016 turbo No lift shift info from the new 'Ask Al section'

Originally Posted by vtirocz
Al,

My primary reason for asking this question is to confirm that the No-Lift Shift (NLS) algorithm is functioning properly on my 2017 1SS. At this year's Camaro Fest in Bowling Green, I asked during the Q&A about the NLS algorithm and you confirmed it was enabled on all 6th gen manual transmission Camaro SS cars. I recently tested the feature out and it did not work how I was expecting. Before I use it again, I'd like to confirm I'm executing it correctly and not just banging into a 6500 RPM limiter if that's not how the feature is supposed to work. Could you please help me clear up the following questions:

1. When the accelerator pedal is at 100% and remains there throughout the procedure, what should engine speed do as the clutch pedal gets depressed and the shift lever moved to the next gear? Does engine speed jump to and get held at 6500 RPM or is engine speed supposed to reduce?

2. What are the enable criteria for the no-lift shift algorithm?

3. Is the algorithm tuned exactly the same between the SS 1LE and SS without 1LE package?

Background information and follow-up questions:
When I perform a no-lift upshift, as I depress the clutch the engine speed will go to 6500 RPM and stay there.... I'm concerned that the feature is not working as intended and it might just be hitting a normal rev limiter....Does PTM in the 1SS 1LE impact the NLS algorithm?
AL's ANSWER:

First of all,

I’m glad you Camaro owners are using all of the functions of the car, including No-lift Shifting. Our engineering team is always looking for the best ways to combine performance and technology to improve the Camaro driving experience. This new “ask Al” forum seems like the perfect place to go further into detail on some of the features that may not get the proper explanation in the Press Releases or media outlets. I’d like to explain what the feature is, first, then explain how to use it on your Camaro. The Camaro has actually had ‘No-lift Shift’ since the 5th Generation. It is a feature that is intended for our drivers who want the performance feel of quick power shifting in our manual transmissions. The feature keeps the throttle at full open for both our boosted and non-boosted applications when passing through the Engine Over-speed Protection during a shift. In Engineering terms, when triggered, there is an immediate torque control, with fuel and spark, for a given period of time. Then, a predictive control takes over using the throttle to control torque. This allows the driver to take advantage of fast torque control for a short period of time (e.g. during the shift) without heating up or damaging the catalyst over time.

To address the most common question about the feature, you should know that there are both enable RPM’s and target RPM’s for each transmission, which are different for each engine application on the Camaro. We’ve put together a table below to show enable and target RPM by engine. To perform a No-lift Shift, simply put the throttle to the floor (i.e. WOT), and keep it there. Once the tachometer reaches the enable RPM, you can depress the clutch and shift as quickly as you can, and you’ll notice the tach will go to your target RPM during the shift. For example, if you are driving a 2017 SS Manual, with your throttle pedal to the floor, and the tach above 5000 RPM, say 5100 RPM, you can quickly upshift without lifting your throttle foot. The tach will reach the target RPM, in this example 6400 RPM, but not flare to redline. You can quick shift at any time during this RPM range. By the way, in our 2.0T Camaro (RPO LTG), if you are performing a No-lift Shift sequence, you will notice that you don’t lose boost during shifting, as you would with normal shifting. This adds up to an improved lap time or quarter mile. Also, you need to have a minimum speed of 15 kph (9.3 mph).

Name: NLS Targets.png
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I would like to address a few of the specific comments with regard to No-lift Shifting. As I mentioned, the feature is on all 6th Generation Camaro Manual Transmissions, with the exception of the 2016 2.0T and V6. Those were added in Model Year 2017 and beyond. With regard to the effect of Mode selection on No-lift Shift, there is no difference between Tour/Sport/Track/Snow-Ice mode or PTM mode on the ability to perform the quick shifts. Most people either don’t keep the throttle to the floor, or don’t wait until they reach their Enable RPM before performing their shift. Both are required criteria to execute the No-lift shift feature. Lastly, the Enable and Target RPM is different for each engine application, and even within an application (as in the SS and SS 1LE).

If you are having problems using the feature, give it a try as I’ve described in this response. It may seem counterintuitive to keep your throttle to the floor while shifting, and the V6 and SS target RPM’s seem close to redline, but trust that it works. It may just take some practice.

Good luck with our No-lift shifting! I hope this response is helpful, and the type of information you were looking to see from the Camaro team.

Until next time,
Al O.

Corner carver · 11-14-2017, 12:23 PM

There is a graph that didn't copy over... Check out the 'Ask Al' section:

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showth...70#post9975170

So yah... No, no lift shift for the 2016 guys :(

Thrashy · 11-14-2017, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corner carver

There is a graph that didn't copy over... Check out the 'Ask Al' section:

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showth...70#post9975170

So yah... No, no lift shift for the 2016 guys :(

I found that interesting, given that Mark Scroggs appeared to demonstrate the NLS feature in action on his 2016 2.0t -- check the video at the bottom of the linked post.

Jason@JacFab · 11-14-2017, 12:59 PM

Thats funny because I'm looking at a 2016 manual trans tune in HPtuners, and it has some stuff for no lift shifting, specifically:

Enable Pedal: 90% (Above this pedal position NLS can be active if VSS requirement is met)
Enable VSS: 9mph (Above this vehicle speed NLS can be active if pedal position requirement is met)

Perhaps he is wrong?

rickwelch69 · 11-14-2017, 01:26 PM

isn't the MY16 the FWD version? thought we had the 3160 tremec? and we do have nls

Jason@JacFab · 11-14-2017, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickwelch69

isn't the MY16 the FWD version? thought we had the 3160 tremec? and we do have nls

MY16 (meaning model year 2016), not referring to a transmission. as far as I know.

rickwelch69 · 11-14-2017, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason@

MY16 (meaning model year 2016), not referring to a transmission. as far as I know.

silly me

b0bsaget007 · 11-14-2017, 03:51 PM

That's some fat B.S. right there, because I've done no-lift shifting in my 2016 2.0T.

Corner carver · 11-14-2017, 04:00 PM

I thought it weird too...having a 2017 I can say it works fine; just thought I'd share for general info as I know lots of guys don't look around the rest of the forum much.
Take it or leave it, but it's right from the horse's mouth so to speak.

Corner carver · 11-14-2017, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thrashy

I found that interesting, given that Mark Scroggs appeared to demonstrate the NLS feature in action on his 2016 2.0t -- check the video at the bottom of the linked post.

I have to agree (going on sound only) it for sure sounds like Mark is completing a NLS on that first 1-2 shift in both vids...the plot thickens; I guess it's totally possible that they're wrong on this one.

Anyone with an M6 2016 care to try it out and take a quick vid?

BomberCamaro · 11-14-2017, 06:46 PM

I actually did a video on this in my 17 M6. Many people in the comments were saying it was harmful to the trans and all of this stuff, when in fact it is much easier on it because there is less shock. NLS controls prevents both spiking and dropping of engine speed (RPM) into the next gear, which will be much easier on your drivetrain.

If you were interested in the video: https://youtu.be/_NdCcb1sriQ

Corner carver · 11-15-2017, 05:51 AM

Sounds like the camaro boys got their wires crossed somewhere.

vtirocz · 11-15-2017, 06:44 AM

Maybe he meant it didn't launch in model year 16 but was a running change. If that's the case, that would explain why at least some 2016 cars have it. Just a thought.

Captslow · 11-15-2017, 07:00 AM

My 2016 has no lift shift I use it all the time. Hell I believe the cobalts had it.

11-14-2017, 12:21 PM	#1
Corner carver Drives: 2017 Camaro 2.0T RS Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Ontario Posts: 1,827	Important 2016 turbo no lift shift info Important 2016 turbo No lift shift info from the new 'Ask Al section' Originally Posted by vtirocz Al, My primary reason for asking this question is to confirm that the No-Lift Shift (NLS) algorithm is functioning properly on my 2017 1SS. At this year's Camaro Fest in Bowling Green, I asked during the Q&A about the NLS algorithm and you confirmed it was enabled on all 6th gen manual transmission Camaro SS cars. I recently tested the feature out and it did not work how I was expecting. Before I use it again, I'd like to confirm I'm executing it correctly and not just banging into a 6500 RPM limiter if that's not how the feature is supposed to work. Could you please help me clear up the following questions: 1. When the accelerator pedal is at 100% and remains there throughout the procedure, what should engine speed do as the clutch pedal gets depressed and the shift lever moved to the next gear? Does engine speed jump to and get held at 6500 RPM or is engine speed supposed to reduce? 2. What are the enable criteria for the no-lift shift algorithm? 3. Is the algorithm tuned exactly the same between the SS 1LE and SS without 1LE package? Background information and follow-up questions: When I perform a no-lift upshift, as I depress the clutch the engine speed will go to 6500 RPM and stay there.... I'm concerned that the feature is not working as intended and it might just be hitting a normal rev limiter....Does PTM in the 1SS 1LE impact the NLS algorithm? AL's ANSWER: First of all, I’m glad you Camaro owners are using all of the functions of the car, including No-lift Shifting. Our engineering team is always looking for the best ways to combine performance and technology to improve the Camaro driving experience. This new “ask Al” forum seems like the perfect place to go further into detail on some of the features that may not get the proper explanation in the Press Releases or media outlets. I’d like to explain what the feature is, first, then explain how to use it on your Camaro. The Camaro has actually had ‘No-lift Shift’ since the 5th Generation. It is a feature that is intended for our drivers who want the performance feel of quick power shifting in our manual transmissions. The feature keeps the throttle at full open for both our boosted and non-boosted applications when passing through the Engine Over-speed Protection during a shift. In Engineering terms, when triggered, there is an immediate torque control, with fuel and spark, for a given period of time. Then, a predictive control takes over using the throttle to control torque. This allows the driver to take advantage of fast torque control for a short period of time (e.g. during the shift) without heating up or damaging the catalyst over time. To address the most common question about the feature, you should know that there are both enable RPM’s and target RPM’s for each transmission, which are different for each engine application on the Camaro. We’ve put together a table below to show enable and target RPM by engine. To perform a No-lift Shift, simply put the throttle to the floor (i.e. WOT), and keep it there. Once the tachometer reaches the enable RPM, you can depress the clutch and shift as quickly as you can, and you’ll notice the tach will go to your target RPM during the shift. For example, if you are driving a 2017 SS Manual, with your throttle pedal to the floor, and the tach above 5000 RPM, say 5100 RPM, you can quickly upshift without lifting your throttle foot. The tach will reach the target RPM, in this example 6400 RPM, but not flare to redline. You can quick shift at any time during this RPM range. By the way, in our 2.0T Camaro (RPO LTG), if you are performing a No-lift Shift sequence, you will notice that you don’t lose boost during shifting, as you would with normal shifting. This adds up to an improved lap time or quarter mile. Also, you need to have a minimum speed of 15 kph (9.3 mph). Name: NLS Targets.png Views: 160 Size: 57.7 KB I would like to address a few of the specific comments with regard to No-lift Shifting. As I mentioned, the feature is on all 6th Generation Camaro Manual Transmissions, with the exception of the 2016 2.0T and V6. Those were added in Model Year 2017 and beyond. With regard to the effect of Mode selection on No-lift Shift, there is no difference between Tour/Sport/Track/Snow-Ice mode or PTM mode on the ability to perform the quick shifts. Most people either don’t keep the throttle to the floor, or don’t wait until they reach their Enable RPM before performing their shift. Both are required criteria to execute the No-lift shift feature. Lastly, the Enable and Target RPM is different for each engine application, and even within an application (as in the SS and SS 1LE). If you are having problems using the feature, give it a try as I’ve described in this response. It may seem counterintuitive to keep your throttle to the floor while shifting, and the V6 and SS target RPM’s seem close to redline, but trust that it works. It may just take some practice. Good luck with our No-lift shifting! I hope this response is helpful, and the type of information you were looking to see from the Camaro team. Until next time, Al O. __________________ As Delivered: 2017 Mosaic Black 1LT RS 2.0T \| M6 \| HD brake and cooling \| Bose & 8"screen \| Front lip extension \| Blade spolier \| Black bowties \| Painted splash guards Installed Mods: 25% Window tint \| Headlight, side marker and third brake light Phastek tint kit \| GM black taillights with Gen5diy LED harness and bulbs \| LED license plate bulbs \| Gorilla lug nuts, black \| GM 'performance' center caps \| RS and sheild badges removed

11-14-2017, 12:23 PM	#2
Corner carver Drives: 2017 Camaro 2.0T RS Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Ontario Posts: 1,827	There is a graph that didn't copy over... Check out the 'Ask Al' section: http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showth...70#post9975170 So yah... No, no lift shift for the 2016 guys :( __________________ As Delivered: 2017 Mosaic Black 1LT RS 2.0T \| M6 \| HD brake and cooling \| Bose & 8"screen \| Front lip extension \| Blade spolier \| Black bowties \| Painted splash guards Installed Mods: 25% Window tint \| Headlight, side marker and third brake light Phastek tint kit \| GM black taillights with Gen5diy LED harness and bulbs \| LED license plate bulbs \| Gorilla lug nuts, black \| GM 'performance' center caps \| RS and sheild badges removed

11-14-2017, 01:26 PM	#5
rickwelch69 Drives: 2016 1LT RS Turbo 4 Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Glendale, AZ 85301 Posts: 155	isn't the MY16 the FWD version? thought we had the 3160 tremec? and we do have nls __________________ 2016 2.0 RS::K&N drop-in filter::RPM Catless down pipe::RPM Tune::Mishimoto Hot&Cold side charge pipes::65ish mm throttle body::289rwhp/328lbft

11-14-2017, 03:51 PM	#8
b0bsaget007 Drives: 2016 2LT RS Blue Velvet Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Central FL Posts: 145	That's some fat B.S. right there, because I've done no-lift shifting in my 2016 2.0T. __________________ PC: i5-6600; RX 480 4GB; 16GB DDR4; Samsung 950 PRO 512GB SSD Car: 2016 Camaro 2LT RS 2.0T 6M Blue Velvet Metallic \| ZZP Hi-Flow Catted Downpipe \| Injen EVO7300 Cold Air Intake

11-14-2017, 04:00 PM	#9
Corner carver Drives: 2017 Camaro 2.0T RS Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Ontario Posts: 1,827	I thought it weird too...having a 2017 I can say it works fine; just thought I'd share for general info as I know lots of guys don't look around the rest of the forum much. Take it or leave it, but it's right from the horse's mouth so to speak. __________________ As Delivered: 2017 Mosaic Black 1LT RS 2.0T \| M6 \| HD brake and cooling \| Bose & 8"screen \| Front lip extension \| Blade spolier \| Black bowties \| Painted splash guards Installed Mods: 25% Window tint \| Headlight, side marker and third brake light Phastek tint kit \| GM black taillights with Gen5diy LED harness and bulbs \| LED license plate bulbs \| Gorilla lug nuts, black \| GM 'performance' center caps \| RS and sheild badges removed

11-14-2017, 12:59 PM	#4
Jason@JacFab Drives: 2016 1LT RS Camaro; 72 Chevelle Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Central Point, OR Posts: 5,688 View My Garage	Thats funny because I'm looking at a 2016 manual trans tune in HPtuners, and it has some stuff for no lift shifting, specifically: Enable Pedal: 90% (Above this pedal position NLS can be active if VSS requirement is met) Enable VSS: 9mph (Above this vehicle speed NLS can be active if pedal position requirement is met) Perhaps he is wrong?

11-14-2017, 06:46 PM	#11
BomberCamaro Drives: 2017 Camaro I4T/2002 Camaro Z/28 Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Shreveport LA Posts: 85	I actually did a video on this in my 17 M6. Many people in the comments were saying it was harmful to the trans and all of this stuff, when in fact it is much easier on it because there is less shock. NLS controls prevents both spiking and dropping of engine speed (RPM) into the next gear, which will be much easier on your drivetrain. If you were interested in the video: https://youtu.be/_NdCcb1sriQ __________________ Mechaniholics Youtube Channel- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-o...0UYF319hF_NmKA Follow my mod journey! So far... 20x9.5 Curva Concepts C-300, Injen 7300 CAI, ZZP Catless Downpipe, RPM charge pipe, 67mm TB, ZZP tune, Snow meth injection, muffler delete, RPI Designs front splitter, black SS spoiler, tinted windows, black bowties, and driver mod. Instagram- @Arctic_Blast_Camaro

11-15-2017, 05:51 AM	#12
Corner carver Drives: 2017 Camaro 2.0T RS Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Ontario Posts: 1,827	Sounds like the camaro boys got their wires crossed somewhere. __________________ As Delivered: 2017 Mosaic Black 1LT RS 2.0T \| M6 \| HD brake and cooling \| Bose & 8"screen \| Front lip extension \| Blade spolier \| Black bowties \| Painted splash guards Installed Mods: 25% Window tint \| Headlight, side marker and third brake light Phastek tint kit \| GM black taillights with Gen5diy LED harness and bulbs \| LED license plate bulbs \| Gorilla lug nuts, black \| GM 'performance' center caps \| RS and sheild badges removed

11-15-2017, 06:44 AM	#13
vtirocz Drives: 2017 Camaro 1SS M6 Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Indy Posts: 2,460	Maybe he meant it didn't launch in model year 16 but was a running change. If that's the case, that would explain why at least some 2016 cars have it. Just a thought. __________________ 2017 Camaro 1SS, M6, Hurst shifter, Hyper Blue, NPP, Gray Split Spoke Wheels Best 1/4 Mile: 12.24 @ 115.9 mph

11-15-2017, 07:00 AM	#14
Captslow Drives: 2016 Camaro RS I4T Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Jacksonville Posts: 135	My 2016 has no lift shift I use it all the time. Hell I believe the cobalts had it.

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