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Old 11-10-2017, 09:38 AM   #15
geoffchad
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoTommy View Post
Link? We haven't had any problem with the ZZP intake on an ATS....
A bunch of guys have had issues on 13-15 cars with the full intake (seems like the fix is distancing the air filter as far from the MAF as possible) and the intake tube I remember seeing two separate issues that had a non-paper filter. As I dislike oiled filters it was (in my mind) just more evidence against oiled filters. They work, no doubt, but they do have downsides.

Regardless of anyone's opinions of the situation, the LTG MAF & factory calibration is extremely sensitive to certain changes, and CELs have been thrown on catch cans, removing the silencer in the stock intake tube, intakes, a TB swap, and bone stock LTGs even have history of throwing codes for fuel trim out of spec due to excessive idling (per GM technical database via my dealer).
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Old 11-10-2017, 02:04 PM   #16
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Hey Guys,

Just wanted to chime in on the issue. This is the first we're hearing of any sort of issue with these hoses, but we are more than happy to look into the issue to determine a path forward.

To start I would like to say that there has been significant R&D performed for this product, which included creating 3 different designs and testing with airflow calculations and on our flow bench. We also logged plenty of miles on our Camaro between testing this hose and our intake system, and I can assure everyone that the factory MAF housing wasn't altered in any way for this product. And as always, for more information on any of our products in the R&D process, make sure you take a look at our Engineering Blog.

For reference, here's the four stages of our induction hose:




That being said, it's hard to tell how any two-three aftermarket components will react together, especially when it comes to changing the cat or removing it all together (even our catted dp requires a tune to ward off unwanted CELS). I notice that both of the issues are coming from the combination of the intake tube and an aftermarket downpipe, which we didn't have issues running that combo on our Camaro, but it's something that we are more than willing to look into

Quote:
Originally Posted by rickwelch69 View Post
I am curious if anyone who installed the intake tube only is having idle issues and random backfires?
Hey Rick,

Just wanted to ask a few questions to help narrow down what's going on. Are you getting these backfires while you're on or off throttle? Also, I was wondering what you had on your car when you got your tuning, and if you had it adjusted for the induction hose? There's a chance that it might not be compensating for the additional airflow and is slowing the timing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason@ View Post
I haven't put mine on yet, but sound like perhaps a vacuum leak? look real hard at that pcv connection, make sure it's got a good seal.
This is also another great suggestion. Check out the pcv connection and also the electrical connections for your VVT as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by laurenwright3 View Post
Installed mine a day or two after my catted dp and it got a p0015b code. Wasn’t sure which was causing it so removed the intake tube and have driven around a month with no code. ( tube was on for less than a week)

My gf drives it more than me and claimed that it was performing poorly with the tube but when I drove it I never felt anything out of the ordinary. Tubes staying off til I get hp tuners and can monitor things more closely.
Hey Lauren,

Just curious about what other mods you’re running? Are you still on the stock tune? Also, which downpipe are you running?

-Nick

Last edited by Mishimoto; 11-10-2017 at 02:39 PM.
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Old 11-10-2017, 02:07 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geoffchad View Post
A bunch of guys have had issues on 13-15 cars with the full intake (seems like the fix is distancing the air filter as far from the MAF as possible) and the intake tube I remember seeing two separate issues that had a non-paper filter. As I dislike oiled filters it was (in my mind) just more evidence against oiled filters. They work, no doubt, but they do have downsides.

Regardless of anyone's opinions of the situation, the LTG MAF & factory calibration is extremely sensitive to certain changes, and CELs have been thrown on catch cans, removing the silencer in the stock intake tube, intakes, a TB swap, and bone stock LTGs even have history of throwing codes for fuel trim out of spec due to excessive idling (per GM technical database via my dealer).
Thanks for some extra insight on the issue!

Just make sure you guys let us know of any issues that come up in the mean time!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil-Bee-NH View Post
Haha I'm not as big a mishi fan as i let on. They still havent sent me my free inflatable penguin. Bout the only good thing i can say they have in my own opinion is the radiator hoses and catch cans. And boy did tjey make those a pain to drain if you don't have small skinny arms and hands.

I'm actually about to update that thread as well, check it out in a few

Also we do offer drain kits for the catch cans to take the struggle out of servicing the cans

-Nick
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Old 11-10-2017, 05:17 PM   #18
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Took off the mishimoto intake tube and my trouble went away. Got two different codes, idled crazy rich and had many mid-exhaust backfires while coming to a stop and when slowing at part throttle. Bad tube? Need to tune for it? Waste of money?
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Old 11-10-2017, 09:56 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mishimoto View Post
Hey Guys,

Just wanted to chime in on the issue. This is the first we're hearing of any sort of issue with these hoses, but we are more than happy to look into the issue to determine a path forward.

To start I would like to say that there has been significant R&D performed for this product, which included creating 3 different designs and testing with airflow calculations and on our flow bench. We also logged plenty of miles on our Camaro between testing this hose and our intake system, and I can assure everyone that the factory MAF housing wasn't altered in any way for this product. And as always, for more information on any of our products in the R&D process, make sure you take a look at our Engineering Blog.

For reference, here's the four stages of our induction hose:




That being said, it's hard to tell how any two-three aftermarket components will react together, especially when it comes to changing the cat or removing it all together (even our catted dp requires a tune to ward off unwanted CELS). I notice that both of the issues are coming from the combination of the intake tube and an aftermarket downpipe, which we didn't have issues running that combo on our Camaro, but it's something that we are more than willing to look into



Hey Rick,

Just wanted to ask a few questions to help narrow down what's going on. Are you getting these backfires while you're on or off throttle? Also, I was wondering what you had on your car when you got your tuning, and if you had it adjusted for the induction hose? There's a chance that it might not be compensating for the additional airflow and is slowing the timing.



This is also another great suggestion. Check out the pcv connection and also the electrical connections for your VVT as well.



Hey Lauren,

Just curious about what other mods you’re running? Are you still on the stock tune? Also, which downpipe are you running?

-Nick

Stock tune and only other mod is a zzp catted Downpipe.
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Old 11-12-2017, 09:11 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mishimoto View Post
Hey Guys,

Just wanted to chime in on the issue. This is the first we're hearing of any sort of issue with these hoses, but we are more than happy to look into the issue to determine a path forward.

To start I would like to say that there has been significant R&D performed for this product, which included creating 3 different designs and testing with airflow calculations and on our flow bench. We also logged plenty of miles on our Camaro between testing this hose and our intake system, and I can assure everyone that the factory MAF housing wasn't altered in any way for this product. And as always, for more information on any of our products in the R&D process, make sure you take a look at our Engineering Blog.

For reference, here's the four stages of our induction hose:




That being said, it's hard to tell how any two-three aftermarket components will react together, especially when it comes to changing the cat or removing it all together (even our catted dp requires a tune to ward off unwanted CELS). I notice that both of the issues are coming from the combination of the intake tube and an aftermarket downpipe, which we didn't have issues running that combo on our Camaro, but it's something that we are more than willing to look into



Hey Rick,

Just wanted to ask a few questions to help narrow down what's going on. Are you getting these backfires while you're on or off throttle? backfires when coming off throttle, like pulling up to a stop or jet letting off in traffic Also, I was wondering what you had on your car when you got your tuning, and if you had it adjusted for the induction hose? I have a catless downpipe, a throttle body from a 2.5 liter, your charge pipes and a tune, did do logs after installing your intake tube but tuner has been out of town. Took a long road trip this past weekend 1500 miles round trip but had to remove your intake as it was affecting drivability at highway speeds. There's a chance that it might not be compensating for the additional airflow and is slowing the timing.



This is also another great suggestion. Check out the pcv connection and also the electrical connections for your VVT as well. The PCV is the connector from your catch can setup, so I assume that since I removed your intake tube and every thing is 100% better that it is the tube.



Hey Lauren,

Just curious about what other mods you’re running? Are you still on the stock tune? Also, which downpipe are you running?

-Nick
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Old 11-13-2017, 08:12 AM   #21
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Hello Everyone

Mishimoto actually does do quite a bit of R&D on every product prior to release. If you'd like to learn more about this product, in particular, feel free to check out our engineering blog showing everything we discovered along the way.

https://www.mishimoto.com/engineerin...e-intake-2016/

You could also take a look at our engineering report showing all the numbers and specifics on the final product.

https://cdn.mishimoto.com/media/prod...ringReport.pdf

Feel free to reach out directly if you ever have questions or concerns at support@mishimoto.com or 302.762.4501. Ext 2 for customer service.

Thanks
-Jake
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Old 11-13-2017, 09:47 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickwelch69 View Post
Took off the mishimoto intake tube and my trouble went away. Got two different codes, idled crazy rich and had many mid-exhaust backfires while coming to a stop and when slowing at part throttle. Bad tube? Need to tune for it? Waste of money?
Hey Rick,

What were the codes you were getting?

I just want to make sure that I'm interpreting correctly, you're hearing crackles and warbles as soon as you let off the throttle? So for instance, if you mash the throttle, get to speed, and the let off, once you're letting off is when you're hearing the backfires?

Also, we designed this tube to run on the stock tune, I noticed that you do have an aftermarket tune on your Camaro which is calibrated for everything that was already installed, but not for the added airflow when you installed our induction hose which could cause some issues. I would definitely recommend reaching out to your tuner (once he's back in town) to get an update on the reprogramming.

As for the PCV connection on our hose, we kept with GM's direct fit connections for our catch can kit and the fitting on the hose, so I would just make sure that your factory hose is latched down securely on that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by laurenwright3 View Post
Stock tune and only other mod is a zzp catted Downpipe.
Hey Lauren,

I'll run this back with the Engineering team. This is the first we're seeing of any codes through our testing and from other customers. Like I said above this is designed to run on the stock tune, so it shouldn't be throwing a code. There's a chance that the two together could be throwing something off. I did see that you were looking into a tune, I would be interested to see the results from that.

-Nick
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Old 11-13-2017, 10:51 AM   #23
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[QUOTE=Mishimoto;9973901]Hey Rick,

What were the codes you were getting?

I just want to make sure that I'm interpreting correctly, you're hearing crackles and warbles as soon as you let off the throttle? So for instance, if you mash the throttle, get to speed, and the let off, once you're letting off is when you're hearing the backfires?

Also, we designed this tube to run on the stock tune, I noticed that you do have an aftermarket tune on your Camaro which is calibrated for everything that was already installed, but not for the added airflow when you installed our induction hose which could cause some issues. I would definitely recommend reaching out to your tuner (once he's back in town) to get an update on the reprogramming.

As for the PCV connection on our hose, we kept with GM's direct fit connections for our catch can kit and the fitting on the hose, so I would just make sure that your factory hose is latched down securely on that.



P015b got this one 3X, initially had a P207?? right after install which I cleared and had not returned. No , not crackle and warble? What I am getting is little explosions that feel like they are right underneath my seat when decelerating, doesn't matter where the throttle was prior to slowing down. am wondering about your return policy now cause I am not at all happy with this product! I have the mishi dual catch can setup so if there is a bad connection there it's on you. and I get the same results when I went back to the stock tune
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Last edited by rickwelch69; 11-13-2017 at 11:06 AM.
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Old 11-13-2017, 12:55 PM   #24
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[QUOTE=rickwelch69;9973973]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mishimoto View Post
Hey Rick,

What were the codes you were getting?

I just want to make sure that I'm interpreting correctly, you're hearing crackles and warbles as soon as you let off the throttle? So for instance, if you mash the throttle, get to speed, and the let off, once you're letting off is when you're hearing the backfires?

Also, we designed this tube to run on the stock tune, I noticed that you do have an aftermarket tune on your Camaro which is calibrated for everything that was already installed, but not for the added airflow when you installed our induction hose which could cause some issues. I would definitely recommend reaching out to your tuner (once he's back in town) to get an update on the reprogramming.

As for the PCV connection on our hose, we kept with GM's direct fit connections for our catch can kit and the fitting on the hose, so I would just make sure that your factory hose is latched down securely on that.



P015b got this one 3X, initially had a P207?? right after install which I cleared and had not returned. No , not crackle and warble? What I am getting is little explosions that feel like they are right underneath my seat when decelerating, doesn't matter where the throttle was prior to slowing down. am wondering about your return policy now cause I am not at all happy with this product! I have the mishi dual catch can setup so if there is a bad connection there it's on you. and I get the same results when I went back to the stock tune

Hey Rick,

What I'm suggesting is not to return to your stock tune, but rather update your current tune to include the larger induction hose. Your current tune is specifically calibrated to the parts you had installed at the time. Changing parts afterwards, especially intake and/or exhaust components after without incorporating them into your custom tune could result in issues like these.

If you're still interested in a return I can set you up with one of our customer service reps, but I would suggest getting in contact with your tuner first.

-Nick
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Old 11-13-2017, 05:07 PM   #25
ChicagoTommy

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mishimoto View Post
Hey Guys,

Just wanted to chime in on the issue. This is the first we're hearing of any sort of issue with these hoses, but we are more than happy to look into the issue to determine a path forward.

To start I would like to say that there has been significant R&D performed for this product, which included creating 3 different designs and testing with airflow calculations and on our flow bench. We also logged plenty of miles on our Camaro between testing this hose and our intake system, and I can assure everyone that the factory MAF housing wasn't altered in any way for this product. And as always, for more information on any of our products in the R&D process, make sure you take a look at our Engineering Blog.

For reference, here's the four stages of our induction hose:




That being said, it's hard to tell how any two-three aftermarket components will react together, especially when it comes to changing the cat or removing it all together (even our catted dp requires a tune to ward off unwanted CELS). I notice that both of the issues are coming from the combination of the intake tube and an aftermarket downpipe, which we didn't have issues running that combo on our Camaro, but it's something that we are more than willing to look into



Hey Rick,

Just wanted to ask a few questions to help narrow down what's going on. Are you getting these backfires while you're on or off throttle? Also, I was wondering what you had on your car when you got your tuning, and if you had it adjusted for the induction hose? There's a chance that it might not be compensating for the additional airflow and is slowing the timing.



This is also another great suggestion. Check out the pcv connection and also the electrical connections for your VVT as well.



Hey Lauren,

Just curious about what other mods you’re running? Are you still on the stock tune? Also, which downpipe are you running?

-Nick
Man, it's that bad that you won't even quote me? Everyone else but me? Damn. Well, your own 'engineering' paper for the hose/box combo directly states that the MAF housing was changed to find 'optimum' placement. So maybe you should fix that to agree with your statement of no MAF placement change. Either you, or the 'engineering' report are wrong. Which one is it? Also, your 'engineering' report states you tested for a whopping 700 miles. While that may be plenty for you, it doesn't seem like nearly enough time to sort out all issues that may arise. I personally don't buy products where the company believes that the retail customer should be the beta tester.

I think my favorite part of the 'engineering' paper is where they extol the benefits of using a plastic MAF housing due to it's superior heat rejection, but then you made the box out of sheet metal because it's SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper. I know what it costs to set up a plastic injection mold. An airbox would run in the $10k-15k range. I was quoted $5k setup and a minimum 1k run to mold the lid I wanted for my 4th gen back in 2005.
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Old 11-13-2017, 06:02 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geoffchad View Post
A bunch of guys have had issues on 13-15 cars with the full intake (seems like the fix is distancing the air filter as far from the MAF as possible) and the intake tube I remember seeing two separate issues that had a non-paper filter. As I dislike oiled filters it was (in my mind) just more evidence against oiled filters. They work, no doubt, but they do have downsides.

Regardless of anyone's opinions of the situation, the LTG MAF & factory calibration is extremely sensitive to certain changes, and CELs have been thrown on catch cans, removing the silencer in the stock intake tube, intakes, a TB swap, and bone stock LTGs even have history of throwing codes for fuel trim out of spec due to excessive idling (per GM technical database via my dealer).
The biggest complaint I've seen with the ATS ZZP box is the whistling created by the ZZP logo on the top of the box. We solved that with some tape. I hadn't seen anyone setting CEL's for reversion. I hadn't seen anyone complaining of CEL's at all, and I'm actually more active on the Cadillac forum. If you know of any, please post the links, or PM me. I'm very interested.
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of the management or sponsors, and the thoughts contained herein are mine,
and is not intended to hurt anyone's feelings or ruin their delicate self esteem, or
to invalidate anyone's personal views or thoughts, nor is it a condemnation of anyone's
race, religion, sex, sexual preferences, handicaps, or intellectual abilities.
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Old 11-13-2017, 07:03 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoTommy View Post
The biggest complaint I've seen with the ATS ZZP box is the whistling created by the ZZP logo on the top of the box. We solved that with some tape. I hadn't seen anyone setting CEL's for reversion. I hadn't seen anyone complaining of CEL's at all, and I'm actually more active on the Cadillac forum. If you know of any, please post the links, or PM me. I'm very interested.
Quite a few people on the Camaro 2.0 Turbo Talk facebook group have complained about CEL's and drivability issues with the ZZP intake. Not sure what the issue is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoTommy View Post
I know what it costs to set up a plastic injection mold. An airbox would run in the $10k-15k range. I was quoted $5k setup and a minimum 1k run to mold the lid I wanted for my 4th gen back in 2005.
I was quoted $10k for a single piece for a cold air intake I was making for the SS back in 2011/12... Shits not cheap. Although it would have dropped my part cost from about $180/ea down to about $10 ea. I would have to run 500pcs minimum per order.
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Old 11-13-2017, 08:11 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason@ View Post
Quite a few people on the Camaro 2.0 Turbo Talk facebook group have complained about CEL's and drivability issues with the ZZP intake. Not sure what the issue is.



I was quoted $10k for a single piece for a cold air intake I was making for the SS back in 2011/12... Shits not cheap. Although it would have dropped my part cost from about $180/ea down to about $10 ea. I would have to run 500pcs minimum per order.
Interesting. I just got approved for one of the facebook groups. I'll have to take a look. I have no practical experience with the Camaro version currently, but that can change quickly. Do you know which CEL is being set?
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