[crabman]

In fairness I don't think your wallet is going to be happy either way. O.O

[mjw930]

Originally Posted by bigdonut

Um, autos do usually get better gas mileage nowadays...

And they are faster on the race track. In fact, the fastest times laid down by the Z06 have been in DRIVE, not using the paddles and not the M7. A PDK equipped GT3 is also measurably faster than the manual. So much so they don't offer a Manual in the current GT3 but that may change since they did a manual in the 911R.

I've owned and road raced sports cars for 40 years and after spending a significant amount of time on the track and the street I purchased the first sports car with an auto last December, my Boxster GTS with PDK. My C7 was an M7 and it was a blast to drive but on the same roads I derive as much enjoyment from the PDK equipped Porsche and am easily as "connected" to the experience as I have been in the last 15 manual transmission sports cars I've owned. Yes, it's different but it is in no way a lesser experience.

I also thoroughly enjoyed the rev matching in the C7 even though I have tought heal toe techniques to aspiring racing students for decades.

Embrace technology, it's not your enemy.

However, as good as the A8 is it's not as good as a PDK, which many consider the best transmission available today. The A8 gets real close when it finally switches into competition mode, I'd say it's 95% of what a PDK is. But in normal mode it's still too sluggish. You can't force "aggressive" mode, it has to "sense" you are driving aggressively. That is one of its biggest flaws, no way to force the mode.

Back to the OP's question, an A8 SS is absolutely an enthusiasts car. Just one with an open mind and the skills to use it to its full potential.

BTW, my wife's 2SS is an A8 so in addition to some seat time I had in an A8 corvette I have direct, personal experience with an A8 Gen6 SS.

[HeaterMan]

Originally Posted by mjw930

And they are faster on the race track. In fact, the fastest times laid down by the Z06 have been in DRIVE, not using the paddles and not the M7. A PDK equipped GT3 is also measurably faster than the manual. So much so they don't offer a Manual in the current GT3 but that may change since they did a manual in the 911R.

I've owned and road raced sports cars for 40 years and after spending a significant amount of time on the track and the street I purchased the first sports car with an auto last December, my Boxster GTS with PDK. My C7 was an M7 and it was a blast to drive but on the same roads I derive as much enjoyment from the PDK equipped Porsche and am easily as "connected" to the experience as I have been in the last 15 manual transmission sports cars I've owned. Yes, it's different but it is in no way a lesser experience.

I also thoroughly enjoyed the rev matching in the C7 even though I have tought heal toe techniques to aspiring racing students for decades.

Embrace technology, it's not your enemy.

However, as good as the A8 is it's not as good as a PDK, which many consider the best transmission available today. The A8 gets real close when it finally switches into competition mode, I'd say it's 95% of what a PDK is. But in normal mode it's still too sluggish. You can't force "aggressive" mode, it has to "sense" you are driving aggressively. That is one of its biggest flaws, no way to force the mode.

Back to the OP's question, an A8 SS is absolutely an enthusiasts car. Just one with an open mind and the skills to use it to its full potential.

^^^ great post

[fastball]

Originally Posted by mjw930

Embrace technology, it's not your enemy.

It's not about technology it's about what's useful to you. There is big difference between letting the computer do it and you being the connection between the engine and transmission.

Not all modern tech is better. Work for useful technology, not newer technology.

[zelmo41]

I got my driver's license in 1957 and enjoyed many cars during the "muscle car" era of the 60's. I thought I would never drive an automatic. Now at age 74, I can't imagine driving a standard.
I got my first auto in a 1997 Cadillac STS. I loved that car and have driven auto since then. I have a 2016 Camaro 2SS convertible on order and am anxious to try the A8.

[HeaterMan]

i'm curious, the A8 in the Scat pack has millisecond shift times when using manual mode both up and down shifting. does the Camaro A8 not have this capability?

[vtirocz]

Originally Posted by mjw930

And they are faster on the race track. In fact, the fastest times laid down by the Z06 have been in DRIVE, not using the paddles and not the M7. A PDK equipped GT3 is also measurably faster than the manual. So much so they don't offer a Manual in the current GT3 but that may change since they did a manual in the 911R.

I've owned and road raced sports cars for 40 years and after spending a significant amount of time on the track and the street I purchased the first sports car with an auto last December, my Boxster GTS with PDK. My C7 was an M7 and it was a blast to drive but on the same roads I derive as much enjoyment from the PDK equipped Porsche and am easily as "connected" to the experience as I have been in the last 15 manual transmission sports cars I've owned. Yes, it's different but it is in no way a lesser experience.

I also thoroughly enjoyed the rev matching in the C7 even though I have tought heal toe techniques to aspiring racing students for decades.

Embrace technology, it's not your enemy.

However, as good as the A8 is it's not as good as a PDK, which many consider the best transmission available today. The A8 gets real close when it finally switches into competition mode, I'd say it's 95% of what a PDK is. But in normal mode it's still too sluggish. You can't force "aggressive" mode, it has to "sense" you are driving aggressively. That is one of its biggest flaws, no way to force the mode.

Back to the OP's question, an A8 SS is absolutely an enthusiasts car. Just one with an open mind and the skills to use it to its full potential.

BTW, my wife's 2SS is an A8 so in addition to some seat time I had in an A8 corvette I have direct, personal experience with an A8 Gen6 SS.

This is good information, but I just wanted to point out that when Randy Pobst tested the auto and manual Z06 at Willow Spring (big track), the manual was faster by ~0.75s. I think there's a reason GM has sent M7 Z06s for magazine track tests.

http://www.motortrend.com/news/2015-...-track-retest/

So the manual isn't quite dead yet, but close

Do you have any back to back data supporting the auto Z06 being faster on a track (road course)?

[thebiglubinsky]

After driving the auto 16 SS, I crossed the Camaro off the list of cars to buy. Recently, my car budget was slashed so I decided to give the SS another shot (BMW off the list due to finances) and I'm now set on buying a manual Camaro. It really is a different car with the manual. The auto was too sluggish compared to the competition auto boxes. It doesn't matter that the auto is faster at all to me. The manual transforms the car.

[G Fo12ce]

I don't have the car yet, so take what I say with that in mind. FWIW I've had 10+ cars (you can see some in my signature link), all manuals except 1 E46 M3 SMG. I ordered the A8. My last car was a manual NISMO 370Z and I did 0 track days in 6 years. At this point I don't anticipate doing any regularly in this car but still wanted it to feel like an enthusiast car. If you keep your foot on the floor and pull the paddles it was pretty legit to me when I test drove it twice.

You have to go drive it. But go with the understanding that if you expect it to shift like a PDK with your foot half down, or after you back out of the throttle the car doesn't know what you want. Drive it in track or sport with a lot of throttle input and again, to me it shifts pretty hard/fast.

[mjw930]

Originally Posted by vtirocz

This is good information, but I just wanted to point out that when Randy Pobst tested the auto and manual Z06 at Willow Spring (big track), the manual was faster by ~0.75s. I think there's a reason GM has sent M7 Z06s for magazine track tests.

http://www.motortrend.com/news/2015-...-track-retest/

So the manual isn't quite dead yet, but close

Do you have any back to back data supporting the auto Z06 being faster on a track (road course)?

Mero made the comment a couple of times at some events relative to the GM proving grounds and VIR but it's really prone to heat soak so the manual is more consistent if you are a track rat. It's painfully obvious the A8 isn't in the same league as dual clutch boxes like Porsche's PDK but like I said before, it's close. What really effects perception of the A8 is the engineers not giving you direct control of the shift maps like BMW, Mercedes and Jaguar give you with their torque converter based autos. If it doesn't think you are pushing it won't go into its performance mode so it feels sluggish. It's a huge perception issue and a major fail for GM.

[evanescent03]

i read the reviews and was coming from owning a different manual enthusiast car and before that i had the dual-clutch version (both M3s). i missed the dual clutch on the street and on the track. i drove the camaro auto and manual back to back... i messed with all the settings a fair amount and drove with different styles... i wasn't impressed with the automatic in manual mode. maybe in FULL auto it works okay, and maybe i still didn't get the settings right, but i think trying to shift the car using the paddles is disappointing.. and that, to me, was very disappointing. after driving the manual it just seemed to fit the car so much better. the auto rev-match feature is cool and takes some of the work out of it and also sounds cool.

i'd 100% recommend taking a solid test drive in both to see which is best for you because preference is the most important thing here. i know i would've been pretty upset if i got the auto without a good test drive. but many guys seem quite happy with it and it just boils down to mostly preference because i'm sure a lot of those guys also have very high, but different, standards.

good luck and have fun!

[evanescent03]

Originally Posted by thebiglubinsky

After driving the auto 16 SS, I crossed the Camaro off the list of cars to buy. Recently, my car budget was slashed so I decided to give the SS another shot (BMW off the list due to finances) and I'm now set on buying a manual Camaro. It really is a different car with the manual. The auto was too sluggish compared to the competition auto boxes. It doesn't matter that the auto is faster at all to me. The manual transforms the car.

i agree with you 100% ... manual makes the car to me. i was comparing to the DCT in a 2015 M3 (which i owned for like 10 months) and the PDK in a 2014 boxster that I was cross-shopping. the auto worked fine as a bump-around-town and go fast when you hammer it trans.. but shifting manually was not enjoyable whatsoever. the 8 speed auto (not DCT) in the BMWs also seems better to me and is actually quite good, IMO. i know i kinda sound like a BMW fanboi... i did end up buying but I did end up in a Camaro for its great value!

[Marine Corps]

The majority of high-end sports cars including the Camaro, Corvette, and most hyper exotic cars from across the pond use automatics in some form. However, buy and drive what you like. Don't be concerned about what other drivers say. Remember, opinions are like as*******. And no, not everyone is an expert on this forum or any other. Drive it like you stole it!

[mjw930]

Originally Posted by evanescent03

i read the reviews and was coming from owning a different manual enthusiast car and before that i had the dual-clutch version (both M3s). i missed the dual clutch on the street and on the track. i drove the camaro auto and manual back to back... i messed with all the settings a fair amount and drove with different styles... i wasn't impressed with the automatic in manual mode. maybe in FULL auto it works okay, and maybe i still didn't get the settings right, but i think trying to shift the car using the paddles is disappointing.. and that, to me, was very disappointing. after driving the manual it just seemed to fit the car so much better. the auto rev-match feature is cool and takes some of the work out of it and also sounds cool.

i'd 100% recommend taking a solid test drive in both to see which is best for you because preference is the most important thing here. i know i would've been pretty upset if i got the auto without a good test drive. but many guys seem quite happy with it and it just boils down to mostly preference because i'm sure a lot of those guys also have very high, but different, standards.

good luck and have fun!

The problem with trying to make an informed decision based on a test drive is the way the A8 works.

1. It's an adaptive transmission, it will take at least a few hundred miles to start adapting to your driving style and dialing in its variable pressure regulators. The A8 we have with 450 miles on it shifts much differently than it did with 6 miles on it when we demo'd it.

2. It only "shows it's worth" when it transitions into performance shifting mode which only occurs when the car senses you are driving it aggressively which can be difficult if not impossible to attain during a test drive, especially if the demo car is new.

Think about it, would you flog a brand new SS with 5 miles on it during a demo to see what the A8 can do then buy that car?

What GM should offer is a track based demo program where people can drive both using cars that have been broken in and perform the way yours will once you get past 1500 miles. The standard "demo the car up and down the streets around the dealership" won't give you what you are looking for. Also, GM intentionally programmed the A8 to operate as smoothly as possible under normal street conditions, it's something they are quite proud of and use it as an excuse to not go dual clutch, claiming they can't get the "driving experience" most people want out of an automatic with a dual clutch design.