[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by Austinwj1

Yeah but from what I’ve seen, Dodge has done quit a bit of marketing for the challenger. I don’t think I’ve seen one ad for the Camaro

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=522109

You are not alone.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by hotlap

How is this?

More Americans chose Camaro than Mustang or Challenger. They paid a +$5,700 premium in doing so.

That's on average. If the difference in monthly sales is 2,000 units per month and those 2,000 unit are $30,000 coupes rather than $45,000 GTs, that drops the ATP of the Mustang by a considerable amount. What you are suggesting is people were willing to pay $5,700 more car to car and that isn't clear.

Again we don't know the costs, fixed or variable, for either car. And we don't know the break down by model.

I can assure you GM carries a higher cost for every Camaro to support pensions and healthcare for retirees than Ford does for the Mustang. By a LOT.

[indyz]

GM has always been this way. GTO was similar strategy. And the south florida stealers were adding 10000$ markups only to blow them out for 8000 below msrp at the end of the year when their strategy backfired and pissed off enthusiasts

[DenverTaco07]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Yeah it's great GM is selling more retail than fleet but sometimes good business is where you find it. I would love to sell to just my small customers because I make more selling to them than distributors but sometimes moving a lot of product at once to a distributor is neccessary.

And without knowing what is made per vehicle this conversation is really just tossing partial data around and all guessing. Ford might be making more total profit on the Mustang because of the fleet sales but we don't know all we can do is guess.

Either way I can bet you the bean counters weren't happy with the number of vehicles sold for any of the 3 cars

EDIT I will say that I do believe GM probably is making more per car than Ford, but we all know Ford isn't losing money on those fleet sales so the total profit in the cars could be the same but we do not know

Originally Posted by WhyUMad1LE

The Camaro is a bad rental car, but a good personal car. No surprises here.

Camaro might be a "Bad rental", but GM's stated goal the last 2 years to the public and its investors has been very clear and purposeful, REDUCE FLEET SALES. My GM shares are up 24.2% over the last 2 years.

if GM has a choice to
A. Sell Camaro at $10,000 with 10,000,000 in sales or
B. for $20,000 with 5,000,000 in sales
Which should they choose?

it is a simplistic question, but I want GM to work less hard for the same profit, and so do they.

[AZCamaroFan]

Originally Posted by indyz

GM has always been this way. GTO was similar strategy. And the south florida stealers were adding 10000$ markups only to blow them out for 8000 below msrp at the end of the year when their strategy backfired and pissed off enthusiasts

not even apples to apples

[Gen6_1Le]

Originally Posted by Austinwj1

Yeah but from what I’ve seen, Dodge has done quit a bit of marketing for the challenger. I don’t think I’ve seen one ad for the Camaro

Do you watch Nascar ?

[MEDISIN]

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

That felt like a comparison done via spec sheet than actually driving the two cars.

Fuel economy should have been a tie. Lame excuse to give the win to the Mustang though.

Not to mention the inaccuracy. The author (and I use that term lightly) states "according to JD Power Mustang earned four out of five, while Camaro earned three out of five stars"?? Let's see...WRONG

Originally Posted by motorhead

What im talking about is perception.. i dont care if you dont read CR, JD powers or any of it, but the word gets around from people that do and only part of the facts get told. . We know the Camaro is a great car as enthusiasts, ,but the nunnies go off of what they hear and read instead of checking it out for themselves.

Perception? People "perceive" Camaro's reliability is worse than Mustang? Who are these people? The data is available for anyone interested.

Originally Posted by shaffe

Yeah it might sell for alot more but if it makes less profit per unit (which we do not know) then does it matter?

We will never know that answer. The fact that retail customers are willing to spend $5k+ more on a Camaro than a Mustang speaks volumes as to what buyers value. We have to assume both companies are working hard to keep costs low. Revenue is a great indicator but even few within GM or FoMoCo could tell you exactly how much profit is earned from various models.

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

Careful, you're treading on dangerous grounds...

You're on the verge of gutting the Camaro6 talking point about retail sales and ATP's.

Volume, prices, performance, reliability, aftermarket, all discussed openly here. Is it a "talking point" in your mind? Are these disseminated somewhere I'm not privy to?

Originally Posted by germanicus

Production vs. sales metrics. The proof is in the massive overflow of units sitting unsold on lots. Not a difficult concept really. Lets see. Do you believe that factories just randomly pump out X number of units based on happenstance? It's based on various factors, but most importantly - projected sales. They expected/project a certain number of sales, and make that number of units. This is not rocket science. Do you think they overproduced (and therefore had to have firesales to move units at the end of the year) because they believed they WOULDN'T sell those units?

They will sell those units. Why wouldn't they? There are over 15k Mustangs awaiting retail sale in the U.S., 14k Challengers and 19k Camaro's. I suspect all of them will sell.

Originally Posted by germanicus

Also, please cut the strawman.

You introduced it.

Originally Posted by germanicus

Of course domestic sales are 'important'. Did I say otherwise? No, so don't be disingenuous and imply otherwise.

You attempted to shift focus to the small minority shipped ex-US.

Originally Posted by germanicus

Do you think that a full 25% of all Mustangs should be ignored because they are sold outside of the U.S.? Mustang outsold Camaro almost 10 to 1 in Europe in 2017.

How is it relevant to a thread about U.S. sales numbers in February?

Originally Posted by germanicus

So you don't think Mustangs outselling 911's in Germany is relevant? GM wouldn't want to be in the same position?

At what cost? Let me know when the Mustang outsells the 911 at a higher price point. Cheaper cars almost always outsell more expensive cars. The exception is when a car is produced that not only outsells it's competition but does so at a higher price point. e.g. 2017

Originally Posted by germanicus

So do YOU have GM's profit figures for Camaro's (or Porsche's 911 profit margins)? Not ATP, Profit margins ....... No, you don't.

No one has profit figures per model, including you. I have ATP's and corporate profits. If you think FoMoCo is making more profit on a Mustang sale than Porsche is on a 911 sale, you have much to learn about the industry.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

The data is available for anyone.

It sure is, and many people dont research it for themselves.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by DenverTaco07

Camaro might be a "Bad rental", but GM's stated goal the last 2 years to the public and its investors has been very clear and purposeful, REDUCE FLEET SALES. My GM shares are up 24.2% over the last 2 years.

if GM has a choice to
A. Sell Camaro at $10,000 with 10,000,000 in sales or
B. for $20,000 with 5,000,000 in sales
Which should they choose?

it is a simplistic question, but I want GM to work less hard for the same profit, and so do they.

True, but at the same time if those 5,000,000 sales cause them to have to shut the plant down 2 times a year and your paying for a factory to do nothing does that not make some of those lower profit sales look a little more appealing. It is all about the right balance. And I do really appreciate GM strategy of going after primary retail sales. All about finding the right balance

[Kobra_Klutch]

The Camaro just needs a Hollywood Blockbuster to attach itself with to help boost information about the current car which could lead to more sales. Dodge has taken up much of the current movies with the Challenger and Charger. Bumblebee is no longer getting it done. We sure could use some help showcasing how badass of a driver the Camaro is on the street/track. Did Chevy submit the Camaro in for the movie Baby Driver? Wait it doesn't seat 4 adults my bad.
According to the movie footage that I've seen the Challenger can do it all and then some and I know that isn't the case but what do these new car buyers and trendies think? Did they even put a new Camaro in any of the latest Fast and Furious movies? Product placement helps, c'mon Chevy!

[RealG]

Originally Posted by Kobra_Klutch

The Camaro just needs a Hollywood Blockbuster to attach itself with to help boost information about the current car which could lead to more sales. Dodge has taken up much of the current movies with the Challenger and Charger. Bumblebee is no longer getting it done. We sure could use some help showcasing how badass of a driver the Camaro is on the street/track. Did Chevy submit the Camaro in for the movie Baby Driver? Wait it doesn't seat 4 adults my bad.
According to the movie footage that I've seen the Challenger can do it all and then some and I know that isn't the case but what do these new car buyers and trendies think? Did they even put a new Camaro in any of the latest Fast and Furious movies? Product placement helps, c'mon Chevy!

Great comments and interesting observations. This is my area and I could shed a little light on it. Movie studios tend to gravitate to one brand or another for a variety of reasons. Universal Studios is in bed with Dodge right now, Paramont pictures who did the Transformers movies they were Chevrolet. Warner Bros leans towards Ford example Grand Torino. Now before everybody gets their feathers ruffled there’s much overlap of course but there is trends and patterns for sure. Most noticeable in background cars. But having said that if Chevrolet wanted their car in a movie they could make that happen. The Jurassic Park jeeps and explorers , back to the future Toyota, Lara Croft tomb raider Jeep and many other movie focused cars the brand placement of those vehicles is no accident.

[Kobra_Klutch]

Originally Posted by RealG

Great comments and interesting observations. This is my area and I could shed a little light on it. Movie studios tend to gravitate to one brand or another for a variety of reasons. Universal Studios is in bed with Dodge right now, Paramont pictures who did the Transformers movies they were Chevrolet. Warner Bros leans towards Ford example Grand Torino. Now before everybody gets their feathers ruffled there’s much overlap of course but there is trends and patterns for sure. Most noticeable in background cars. But having said that if Chevrolet wanted their car in a movie they could make that happen. The Jurassic Park jeeps and explorers , back to the future Toyota, Lara Croft tomb raider Jeep and many other movie focused cars the brand placement of those vehicles is no accident.

Exactly. Last year Vin Diesel and the 2 months of leaked footage for the Dodge Demon help lead up to it's public unveiling at the NYIAS. Most people on here know that the 2019 will be refreshed but I doubt that the masses have any idea that changes are coming.

[MuhThugga]

Originally Posted by indyz

GM has always been this way. GTO was similar strategy. And the south florida stealers were adding 10000$ markups only to blow them out for 8000 below msrp at the end of the year when their strategy backfired and pissed off enthusiasts

The GTO isn't comparable. It was always intended to be a low volume car. Less than 40,000 were made over the span of three years.

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by Kobra_Klutch

The Camaro just needs a Hollywood Blockbuster to attach itself with to help boost information about the current car which could lead to more sales. Dodge has taken up much of the current movies with the Challenger and Charger. Bumblebee is no longer getting it done. We sure could use some help showcasing how badass of a driver the Camaro is on the street/track. Did Chevy submit the Camaro in for the movie Baby Driver? Wait it doesn't seat 4 adults my bad.
According to the movie footage that I've seen the Challenger can do it all and then some and I know that isn't the case but what do these new car buyers and trendies think? Did they even put a new Camaro in any of the latest Fast and Furious movies? Product placement helps, c'mon Chevy!

You're right!

If only the Camaro had a huge movie or four to help get it on screen.