[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Turbo_J89

The 5th gen Camaro sold an average of aroud 6700 units per month from release through 2015. In January between 2010-2015, GM moved around 5000 units each year. These sales numbers are almost -40%.

GM sold roughly 500,000 5th gen Camaro's and there are around 221 million driver's in the United States. It's hard to imagine poor sales are the result of market saturation when the 5th gen sold strong through it's entire run and there are so many potential customers out there.

The car is too expensive to appeal to the majority of people who would have bought one at a price close to the 5th gen. Fix the price, fix the problem.

Or "fix the price"....and create a problem?

Just my .02. We've been looking at sales figures for this generation for almost two years, now...and it's been the same story since day 1. Most people in here, so far, seem to be under the impression that these sales number are somehow "bad". Yet - we haven't heard anything so far as to suggest the Camaro is a money loser, and is therefore on the chopping block. If that were the case, you know we'd hear it!

I maintain that while of course they want to sell as many as possible, this generation, Chevy decided to intentionally charge a premium vs the competition, NOT sell to fleets (because that's what Mustang does ), and make more money than Gen 5 while selling fewer. Note they're still not putting very much money on the hoods of these cars...

I don't necessarily think they wanted to sell this many fewer cars (January)...but we're all in here judging the success or failure of the vehicle program based solely on sales figures, and there's so many other factors involved.

Naturally we all want the Camaro to sell more cars than Mustang...more cars than Challenger...more cars than Camry....but those people up in Detroit are pretty smart - I don't think the sky is falling, just yet.

[MEDISIN]

Some year end numbers for 2017 if anyone is interested. Camaro finished the year at ~4% fleet, Mustang 26% fleet and Challenger at 29% fleet.

Retail ATP's 2017 (JDPin)
Camaro: $39,514
Challenger: $35,498
Mustang: $33,792

Retail Sales 2017
Camaro: 65,222
Mustang: 60,581
Challenger: 45,821

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

Or "fix the price"....and create a problem?

Just my .02. We've been looking at sales figures for this generation for almost two years, now...and it's been the same story since day 1. Most people in here, so far, seem to be under the impression that these sales number are somehow "bad". Yet - we haven't heard anything so far as to suggest the Camaro is a money loser, and is therefore on the chopping block. If that were the case, you know we'd hear it!

I maintain that while of course they want to sell as many as possible, this generation, Chevy decided to intentionally charge a premium vs the competition, NOT sell to fleets (because that's what Mustang does ), and make more money than Gen 5 while selling fewer. Note they're still not putting very much money on the hoods of these cars...

I don't necessarily think they wanted to sell this many fewer cars (January)...but we're all in here judging the success or failure of the vehicle program based solely on sales figures, and there's so many other factors involved.

Naturally we all want the Camaro to sell more cars than Mustang...more cars than Challenger...more cars than Camry....but those people up in Detroit are pretty smart - I don't think the sky is falling, just yet.

Very doubtful GM would comment on the sales meeting or not meeting expectations.

They haven't made a peep as Ram slowly gains on the Silverado as those sales continue to slide.

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

Some year end numbers for 2017 if anyone is interested. Camaro finished the year at ~4% fleet, Mustang 26% fleet and Challenger at 29% fleet.

Retail ATP's 2017 (JDPin)
Camaro: $39,514
Challenger: $35,498
Mustang: $33,792

Retail Sales 2017
Camaro: 65,222
Mustang: 60,581
Challenger: 45,821

Starting to think the ATP vs sales is the Camaro is simply selling more SSS as a percentage of sales. Mustang sales likely have a higher percentage of non GTs or simply that is where the extra volume is coming from.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

Some year end numbers for 2017 if anyone is interested. Camaro finished the year at ~4% fleet, Mustang 26% fleet and Challenger at 29% fleet.

Retail ATP's 2017 (JDPin)
Camaro: $39,514
Challenger: $35,498
Mustang: $33,792

Retail Sales 2017
Camaro: 65,222
Mustang: 60,581
Challenger: 45,821

$5,722 more per sale than Mustang.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

Some year end numbers for 2017 if anyone is interested. Camaro finished the year at ~4% fleet, Mustang 26% fleet and Challenger at 29% fleet.

Retail ATP's 2017 (JDPin)
Camaro: $39,514
Challenger: $35,498
Mustang: $33,792

Retail Sales 2017
Camaro: 65,222
Mustang: 60,581
Challenger: 45,821

Thanks for posting that. Where'd you get info on fleet vs. retail sales?

Originally Posted by Number 3

Very doubtful GM would comment on the sales meeting or not meeting expectations.

They haven't made a peep as Ram slowly gains on the Silverado as those sales continue to slide.

I'm not suggesting they'd come out and say anything directly. But we've already heard rumors about Sonic and Volt...The Camaro is pretty high profile - I'm pretty sure such news would leak...

Originally Posted by Number 3

Starting to think the ATP vs sales is the Camaro is simply selling more SSS as a percentage of sales. Mustang sales likely have a higher percentage of non GTs or simply that is where the extra volume is coming from.

Not sure about Mustang...but,

Camaro 1LT, 2LT, and 1LS models accounted for 59% of total deliveries for MY 2017, as a reference. And 58% of those cars paid for the RS package. The cost on those cars add up quick with options. You're probably onto something, though...at least one of the factors, after all, they sold 2x as many ZL1s as 1LSs, for example.

[Turbo_J89]

You either sell as many cars as you produce or you end up with surplus inventory. I'd imagine GM produces close to 5000 Camaro's a month since that's about as many as they have been selling on average. Of course, April could be an awesome month to offset January and all work out great. The question is, will this trend continue? ATP doesn't mean much if you aren't selling cars.

[90503]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

Or "fix the price"....and create a problem?

Just my .02. We've been looking at sales figures for this generation for almost two years, now...and it's been the same story since day 1. Most people in here, so far, seem to be under the impression that these sales number are somehow "bad". Yet - we haven't heard anything so far as to suggest the Camaro is a money loser, and is therefore on the chopping block. If that were the case, you know we'd hear it!

I maintain that while of course they want to sell as many as possible, this generation, Chevy decided to intentionally charge a premium vs the competition, NOT sell to fleets (because that's what Mustang does ), and make more money than Gen 5 while selling fewer. Note they're still not putting very much money on the hoods of these cars...

I don't necessarily think they wanted to sell this many fewer cars (January)...but we're all in here judging the success or failure of the vehicle program based solely on sales figures, and there's so many other factors involved.

Naturally we all want the Camaro to sell more cars than Mustang...more cars than Challenger...more cars than Camry....but those people up in Detroit are pretty smart - I don't think the sky is falling, just yet.

I would have to think, though, that at some point the sales figures are the biggest factor....True, a few bad months shouldn't determine the car's fate, but a second month of the worst sales figures in the last nine years, holding on to a solid "third" place for a while now, and not much changing on the horizon, should lend some weight to wondering what the future holds....

The initial retail numbers are great...But at some point all those other fleet sales by the competition end up on the road in private hands, and they weren't built by Chevrolet...

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

Thanks for posting that. Where'd you get info on fleet vs. retail sales?

KBB KarPower

MEDISIN has been posting this info for much of 2017

[Gunsmokez]

Car is too expensive for what it is. 2 door coupe with limited visibility,hard to get in an out of, and is a chey. Where I am located Chevy ain't the most trusted brand. Only chevys you see around are trucks , or shit boxes.

I hope they do not sell much at all. So they can drop the price more and I can get one for dirt cheap

Bring back the RED tag deals!! no more of this Cash credit crap that has been available ever since.

[metros11]

Originally Posted by Gunsmokez

Car is too expensive for what it is.

Disagree completely. Find me another car with a starting price of $38k and this level of performance.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by metros11

Disagree completely. Find me another car with a starting price of $38k and this level of performance.

[camaro5]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

Some year end numbers for 2017 if anyone is interested. Camaro finished the year at ~4% fleet, Mustang 26% fleet and Challenger at 29% fleet.

Retail ATP's 2017 (JDPin)
Camaro: $39,514
Challenger: $35,498
Mustang: $33,792

Retail Sales 2017
Camaro: 65,222
Mustang: 60,581
Challenger: 45,821

Wait, so Camaro RETAIL $$$ sales were 5,000 over mustang?

Hello - Show me the money!

We could have won total sales by dumping many more Camaros onto rental lots at minimum profit.

ATP and Retail sales winner! $$$

The refresh is coming soon, and will reboot the pricing structure.

Mustang is just refreshed and sold 4k in Jan.

Thanks for posting Medisin!

[Gunsmokez]

There are no tracks here where I live. So, having a car built up for track use, when no tracks available makes no sense. Yes in USA there might be.

Also, I'm in Canada. Prices are over inflated with no real discounts ever. We do not have the same discounts you have in the USA especially with all those rebates . Did i mention no one drives Chevs here? So, from speaking in this perspective. I see why no one wants the camaro here

[IMadeYouReadThis]

Originally Posted by Gunsmokez

There are no tracks here where I live. So, having a car built up for track use, when no tracks available makes no sense. Yes in USA there might be.

Also, I'm in Canada. Prices are over inflated with no real discounts ever. We do not have the same discounts you have in the USA especially with all those rebates . Did i mention no one drives Chevs here? So, from speaking in this perspective. I see why no one wants the camaro here

What are you talking about man I'm in Canada as well. People drives domestic here unless they live in the city. GM has the number two sales of all auto manufacturers in the country for 17. Some of us work in the Auto industry so please get your facts straight before you post



Unsurprisingly, Ford (308,474), General Motors (302,826) and Fiat-Chrysler (267,052) were the top-selling companies in Canada in 2017. GM, in fact, saw its sales increase by 13.3% in comparison with 2016. The top 5 list for Canada was rounded out by Toyota (199,782) and Honda (176,951). These were followed by Nissan (134,244), Hyundai (129,696), Kia (76,504), Mazda (74,056) and Volkswagen (69,634).
Read more at https://www.auto123.com/en/news/2017...cumtpRWbT5o.99

https://www.auto123.com/en/news/2017...-canada/64278/