[Bosse'sBoss]

All my prior sport cars were standard transmission ('05 Infinity G35 sport coupe, '02 Porsche 911 Carrera, '11 Mustang GT 5.0 w/. 3.73 gear) all of them were a blast to drive, very engaging sport cars, I use them at the track and for DD spirited driving. After trying myself a Ferrari F430 and a Lamborghini Gallardo both in automatic at Las Vegas Motor Speedway, I thought why don't get an automatic ZL1 so my wife can enjoy and stop complaining about driving my standard transmission sport cars. I made her happy but I really miss the enjoyment of the driving involvement of driving a standard transmission, even while driving a paddle shifted automatic HP SC V8 it does not feel the same. My next car will be a Stingray Z51 and I'm going back to standard transmission. Maybe a Porsche PDK will be also engaging, but not planning to go that way.
To each their own.

[thefirstcause]

Whenever I do get my Camaro (hopefully sooner than later) it will be the A8 or A10 if I manage to snag myself a ZL1. I adore the new technology and paddle shifting. The old 'manual or it isn't badass' cliche is obsolete now. Anyone still on the 'ahh you got an auto? Lame! Real cars have stick, you don't really love cars' bandwagon doesn't realize they've already been left behind. I've been driving stick for years, and it is great people who love manual still have the option with these cars, but it is no longer the default, just a preference/opinion. Fun for everyone! =)

[H(.)(.)ters]

Originally Posted by fastball

That is an ignorant and really flippant statement. You really have no idea what you're talking about. You must be some 18 year old punk who lives in their parents basement. I should report this post to the moderators and have your account suspended just for sheer stupidity or lack of a brain.

I dare you to say the same f'ing thing to Carl Edwards or Kyle Busch.... They will leave your "highest levels of motor sports" in a pile of wreckage with their "Flintstone" era 4 speed manuals.

Please.

First of all, let me apologize for coming off that way. It wasn't my intention. I was just trying to point out to the OP that you don't have to feel like any LESS of an enthusiast for going with an automatic because there are many who embrace the latest technologies. I didn't mean to imply anything else with respect to manuals. The only thing I get upset about is when people give those who chose AT a hard time for NOT getting MT stating all those reasons I mentioned previously.

Secondly, I'm 16 and live in the attic! Get it straight.

[Modshack]

Originally Posted by H(.)(.)ters

First of all, let me apologize for coming off that way.

No need to apologize. He clearly over-reacted. Personally, I agree with your observations. You'll find quite a few transmission Bigots here...

Using Nascar as an example is pretty stone age in this day and age...

[fastball]

Originally Posted by H(.)(.)ters

First of all, let me apologize for coming off that way. It wasn't my intention. I was just trying to point out to the OP that you don't have to feel like any LESS of an enthusiast for going with an automatic because there are many who embrace the latest technologies. I didn't mean to imply anything else with respect to manuals. The only thing I get upset about is when people give those who chose AT a hard time for NOT getting MT stating all those reasons I mentioned previously.

Secondly, I'm 16 and live in the attic! Get it straight.

Apology accepted.... No problem, I just get tired of people chastising the manual transmission. It's not about technology it's about what people like. And there are people who firmly stand by the manual, me being one of them.

Originally Posted by Modshack

No need to apologize. He clearly over-reacted. Personally, I agree with your observations. You'll find quite a few transmission Bigots here...

Using Nascar as an example is pretty stone age in this day and age...

I did not overreact. His comment was overreaching and I accept his apology.

Leave it at that before someone gets their hand slapped by the moderators.

F1 drivers don't have the cajones to go toe to toe with NASCAR drivers..... Did you see the wrecks at Talladega today? Open wheel takes it's own skill but they know you can't bump and grind. Changes the "skill" requirements right there. See what they think about 40 cars going 190 each within 2 inches of the next car.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by mjw930

The problem with trying to make an informed decision based on a test drive is the way the A8 works.

1. It's an adaptive transmission, it will take at least a few hundred miles to start adapting to your driving style and dialing in its variable pressure regulators. The A8 we have with 450 miles on it shifts much differently than it did with 6 miles on it when we demo'd it.

2. It only "shows it's worth" when it transitions into performance shifting mode which only occurs when the car senses you are driving it aggressively which can be difficult if not impossible to attain during a test drive, especially if the demo car is new.

Think about it, would you flog a brand new SS with 5 miles on it during a demo to see what the A8 can do then buy that car?

What GM should offer is a track based demo program where people can drive both using cars that have been broken in and perform the way yours will once you get past 1500 miles. The standard "demo the car up and down the streets around the dealership" won't give you what you are looking for. Also, GM intentionally programmed the A8 to operate as smoothly as possible under normal street conditions, it's something they are quite proud of and use it as an excuse to not go dual clutch, claiming they can't get the "driving experience" most people want out of an automatic with a dual clutch design.

Great post, agree completely. To put things in perspective I found this video showing the "OMG" lag on the paddles from a broken in C7. Is there some lag, yes. Is it as bad as some people love to think...no.



I would also ask those who believe they are somehow more connected in a manual to remember. You drive a car with throttle by wire, electric assist steering, power brakes, and hydraulic assist clutch. You are not that connected anymore. But more importantly being connected to every mechanical part of the car is not always a good thing, just like not being connected is not always a bad thing. Pick the trans that works best for what you want, not the one anyone tells you "connects you more to the car".

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by vtirocz

This is good information, but I just wanted to point out that when Randy Pobst tested the auto and manual Z06 at Willow Spring (big track), the manual was faster by ~0.75s. I think there's a reason GM has sent M7 Z06s for magazine track tests.

http://www.motortrend.com/news/2015-...-track-retest/

So the manual isn't quite dead yet, but close

Do you have any back to back data supporting the auto Z06 being faster on a track (road course)?

Don't forget the ATS-V A8 was faster around VIR than the M6. The ratios on the M7 to A8 are a closer match. But the A8 has a distinct advantage over the M6 in gearing. That's probably the reason it is faster. So I would expect similar results from a 6th gen SS M6 vs A8 around the same track. I would probably still buy the M6 is I was serious about tracking.

[crabman]

Personally I never talked about this track BS back when sticks were measurably faster because most people don't drive a stick well enough to match the time the pro used to beat those automatic anyways. Not now, not 30 years ago. Nor will most of these cars ever go out on a track. Yeah, I said it, only a tiny fraction of these cars will ever venture out onto a track. Why someone thinks its a good idea to value above all else what someone does with a car in a place they will never go doing something neither they or their car will ever do is beyond me.

This car is better than I am, I wont fully utilize its performance potential even on my rare track day let alone out on the street. The same likely holds true for nearly every person who posted here, possibly every person. Numbers matter but they are not the only thing that matters. I would submit that for most people getting the trans they enjoy driving more is going to make for a happier ownership experience. I drive a stick in my fun car because I enjoy it more. I don't give a crap what someone else thinks about that. If I enjoyed an auto better I would buy it and the same uncaring crap would be applied there. I'm not making Costco runs. I'm not a professional driver on a closed circuit. I'm out there having a little fun when the road and common sense allows.

Almost no one buys a Camaro because they need a practical car to haul a couple kids and make Costco runs. For most people its a fun car that maybe gets some commuter action. Some people don't like driving sticks, if that's you, buy the auto. If you like the stick, buy it. You're the guy doing commuter maybe you have to balance the fun factor against the convenience but that's about as hard as it's going to get making a choice. It isn't that hard.

[laynlo15]

Here are the facts, the M6 has slower ets and mph in the quarter, by a bunch. You can shift it like a stick if you want, paddle shift it, better mileage, more gears if that matters. No brainer for me anyway and I've had lots of stick cars. If you want to road race, stick it better.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by crabman

Personally I never talked about this track BS back when sticks were measurably faster because most people don't drive a stick well enough to match the time the pro used to beat those automatic anyways. Not now, not 30 years ago. Nor will most of these cars ever go out on a track. Yeah, I said it, only a tiny fraction of these cars will ever venture out onto a track. Why someone thinks its a good idea to value above all else what someone does with a car in a place they will never go doing something neither they or their car will ever do is beyond me.

This car is better than I am, I wont fully utilize its performance potential even on my rare track day let alone out on the street. The same likely holds true for nearly every person who posted here, possibly every person. Numbers matter but they are not the only thing that matters. I would submit that for most people getting the trans they enjoy driving more is going to make for a happier ownership experience. I drive a stick in my fun car because I enjoy it more. I don't give a crap what someone else thinks about that. If I enjoyed an auto better I would buy it and the same uncaring crap would be applied there. I'm not making Costco runs. I'm not a professional driver on a closed circuit. I'm out there having a little fun when the road and common sense allows.

Almost no one buys a Camaro because they need a practical car to haul a couple kids and make Costco runs. For most people its a fun car that maybe gets some commuter action. Some people don't like driving sticks, if that's you, buy the auto. If you like the stick, buy it. You're the guy doing commuter maybe you have to balance the fun factor against the convenience but that's about as hard as it's going to get making a choice. It isn't that hard.

Performance has risen to a level that if you don't take your car to the track or strip you can't even begin to experience what it can do. Best transmission depends on what you want to do. My SS (I get it Tuesday) has the A8 but I wouldn't say I'll never get a manual again either.

[bigdonut]

Originally Posted by mjw930

The problem with trying to make an informed decision based on a test drive is the way the A8 works.

1. It's an adaptive transmission, it will take at least a few hundred miles to start adapting to your driving style and dialing in its variable pressure regulators. The A8 we have with 450 miles on it shifts much differently than it did with 6 miles on it when we demo'd it.

2. It only "shows it's worth" when it transitions into performance shifting mode which only occurs when the car senses you are driving it aggressively which can be difficult if not impossible to attain during a test drive, especially if the demo car is new.

Think about it, would you flog a brand new SS with 5 miles on it during a demo to see what the A8 can do then buy that car?

What GM should offer is a track based demo program where people can drive both using cars that have been broken in and perform the way yours will once you get past 1500 miles. The standard "demo the car up and down the streets around the dealership" won't give you what you are looking for. Also, GM intentionally programmed the A8 to operate as smoothly as possible under normal street conditions, it's something they are quite proud of and use it as an excuse to not go dual clutch, claiming they can't get the "driving experience" most people want out of an automatic with a dual clutch design.

Source? Just curious and I haven't heard of this before...

[Mikey LikesIt]

I've always liked manual cars but newer auto trannies are too good to ignore. Lots of speeds, quick shifts, "manual mode" with the paddle shifters...

I had previously a 01 Z28 M6 and 10 SS M6. Fun cars and good performance compared to their auto equivalent. In the year 2016 the auto is quicker in the Camaro SS and has an extra 2 speeds.....so that helped my decision. I wanted to be able to launch the car consistently and not worry about missed shifts. Maybe I'm a crappy manual driver though.

[at7000ft]

Originally Posted by H(.)(.)ters

At the highest levels of motorsports (F1, motoGP, etc.), what many would consider the pinnacle of skill and enthusiasm, the drivers/riders are using automatic or some form of clutchless shifting. Why? Because the technology is available to take advantage of. It's like that episode of Seinfeld where he made fun of the Chinese who continue to use chopsticks when they know the better fork utensil already exists for their benefit.

People hang on to their old school notions of stick shifts and romanticize how it makes them feel connected and secret-handshakey skillful and manly, and blah, blah, blah. Back in the day, these same purists would probably forgo the blasphemous automobile contraption altogether and stick with the tried-and-true horse and buggy while waxing poetic about how having a live animal made them feel more connected to the mode of transport. Ya can't whistle and have that car come trotting over to ya, can ya? Huh?

Times change. Technology changes. People need to change with the times or get left behind. Otherwise, we'd all be walking around with our bare feet instead of driving fine automobiles.

And taking that scenario a bit further, after the Apple car comes out and the government requires use of fully autonomous vehicles (because a computer can more safely operate a car better than a homo sapien, and will not speed), you will have no problem relinquishing your steering wheel and throttle petal in the name of technology? Could happen sooner than you think.

[fastball]

Originally Posted by at7000ft

And taking that scenario a bit further, after the Apple car comes out and the government requires use of fully autonomous vehicles (because a computer can more safely operate a car better than a homo sapien, and will not speed), you will have no problem relinquishing your steering wheel and throttle petal in the name of technology? Could happen sooner than you think.

Great point. Just wait till one of those autonomous cars malfunctions. Crashes in the digital/computer sense. All computers have issues eventually that cause them to glitch out or malfunction. Yes humans error as well but human accidents are quite predictable. Who knows what a car that has it's own mind might do if it glitches out???

Who is responsible when one drives through your house because the nav wasn't updated since your new street was built?