[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Capisce

There are a few comments in here I disagree with.

Anyone who thinks the 6th gen is too similar to the 5th is simply too oblivious about any cars that they would ever be in the demagraphic to buy a camaro. I'm so sick of hearing that. They are much different. If the camaro wasn't resdesigned this year, I'd be turning in my '13 lease and leaving camaro for something else. I did not care for the past two years body style at all.

I did cross shop a 4 series as a car of similar price and found that I just couldn't justify it. A 4 series starts out so bare bones it's pathetic. By the time you add all the options a camaro has, it goes from low 40s to like 60k. It's a ripoff in my opinion

I think your use of the word oblivious is a bit harsh. Many folks, many have complained about it. Pretty sure that all the fans on here that think that aren't oblivious.

Also as the big fan that you apparently are, and as most on this website are, you can quote chapter and verse the distinct changes in the Gen6. However, we are talking about getting the unwashed to want this car not just the fans excited enough to go on a website every day for many years. It is simply a complaint all over this site. It's pretty clear GM did not stray far from the Gen5 formula. I think they even stated this on several occasions.

And yes, many will agree with your assessment of the 4 Series. The car I looked at before I bought my SS (sedan) was just over $60,000 but it was, to quote Ron White, loh oh oh oh dedddddddddd. But some people would rather have a 435i at $48,000 than an SS. And sorry, the fact that the price will chase some to some other aspirational vehicle (as I said, BMW was only one example) when the price gets high enough is a reality. And one of the other complaints has been the price went up too high on the Gen6. But please oh please open your mind to the fact that $50,000 for a Camaro is a shocker to many people. Simply for a Chevrolet for that matter that isn't a Tahoe or a Corvette. And also open your mind to the fact that although you think the 4 Series is a rip off, many, many more people aspire to a BMW than a Chevrolet. My only wish is that Cadillac had the same aspirational aura, which is doesn't.

[Redd1983]

Most here are enthusiast, or at least here because they're interested and then come across a plethora of information regarding the 6 gen which aids to the difference and overall improvements made( I'm the latter ), however on its face the outside is very similar and without knowing the specs most want a new generation to look like a new generation. I saw a person with the 5 gen vert and ask how did they like it they replied love it. I told then I was getting a 6 gen and they said yeah its a little different. Knowing what I've learned from this site I find that to be one hell of a understatement. With that being said the majority of ppl buy arn't enthusiast don't see a noticeable change.

Originally Posted by Capisce

There are a few comments in here I disagree with.

Anyone who thinks the 6th gen is too similar to the 5th is simply too oblivious about any cars that they would ever be in the demagraphic to buy a camaro. I'm so sick of hearing that. They are much different. If the camaro wasn't resdesigned this year, I'd be turning in my '13 lease and leaving camaro for something else. I did not care for the past two years body style at all.

I did cross shop a 4 series as a car of similar price and found that I just couldn't justify it. A 4 series starts out so bare bones it's pathetic. By the time you add all the options a camaro has, it goes from low 40s to like 60k. It's a ripoff in my opinion

[Capisce]

Maybe it came across too harsh but it has always bothered me when people say it looks too much like previous years. Cars rarely are completely redesigned in body style. That's how you know what they all are - they look similar to previous designs. This is the same for all cars. This years camaro has the tweaks in the right places in my opinion

A mustang looks like a mustang. A bmw looks like a bmw. But god forbid a camaro looks like a camaro

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Capisce

Maybe it came across too harsh but it has always bothered me when people say it looks too much like previous years. Cars rarely are completely redesigned in body style. That's how you know what they all are - they look similar to previous designs. This is the same for all cars. This years camaro has the tweaks in the right places in my opinion

A mustang looks like a mustang. A bmw looks like a bmw. But god forbid a camaro looks like a camaro

I think GM was a bit conservative in staying too close to the Gen5. But as they say, that's my opinion. Whether that is hurting sales is tough to say. GM asked owners what they wanted and from what GM has said the clear and resounding answer was more of the same. So they refined the look of the car, way upgraded the interior (and yes there are die hard Gen5 fans that will disagree there) and way upgraded the performance.

Also, don't misinterpret my opinion either. I do believe the Gen6 is a cleaner, better balanced, more refined looking car. But they didn't stray from the Gen5, just cleaned it up and made it more current. It is clearly a Camaro.

So improved performance. Check! Improved interior materials and content. Check! Looks like a Camaro but refined and modernized. Check!

So why isn't it selling better?

But back to Doc's original point, would a lower priced Camaro sell better (and be more profitable for GM) or would they do better with a HP Cruze Hatch? Or a unique lower end RWD car? All good topics for discussion amongst car folk.

[cellsafemode]

The base model camaro just hit dealer floors. That's why sales are not hitting expectations.

[Capisce]

Originally Posted by Number 3

I think GM was a bit conservative in staying too close to the Gen5. But as they say, that's my opinion. Whether that is hurting sales is tough to say. GM asked owners what they wanted and from what GM has said the clear and resounding answer was more of the same. So they refined the look of the car, way upgraded the interior (and yes there are die hard Gen5 fans that will disagree there) and way upgraded the performance.

Also, don't misinterpret my opinion either. I do believe the Gen6 is a cleaner, better balanced, more refined looking car. But they didn't stray from the Gen5, just cleaned it up and made it more current. It is clearly a Camaro.

So improved performance. Check! Improved interior materials and content. Check! Looks like a Camaro but refined and modernized. Check!

So why isn't it selling better?

But back to Doc's original point, would a lower priced Camaro sell better (and be more profitable for GM) or would they do better with a HP Cruze Hatch? Or a unique lower end RWD car? All good topics for discussion amongst car folk.

Yes I agree with all of that. It seems like we are on the same page, I just had to let out some frustration.

[mjw930]

The base mustang and the base Camaro are within $500 of each other. The mustang offers more power in its least expensive model, the Camaro more in its V6 variant. They both hover in the upper $20's without any packages or options. I don't see the disconnect here?

I don't worry or care about total unit sales or whether they beat Ford and I don't understand why any customer would so long as you were able to get the car you want.

[Doc]

Well GM has to do something including rethinking what they want the Camaro to be. The top performance models are already reaching into Corvette territory price-wise. Is it the same customer base? There might be a few but the majority of Corvette customers don't seem to want to go anywhere else. Once you approach $45k+ in price you're now in a completely different mindset and market segment. The Camaro is now there and so far the results don't seem to be what anyone who is a fan of Camaros hoped.

The local dealer here has all his 6th gens marked down $3k-$5k and they still aren't selling. Is it the insurance costs? What's the hang-up? Something has happened in the mind of the buying public that's holding them back. I'm going to have to take the time and make the trip to the dealer and see one up close (he's not that close to me) to try and figure out why anyone wouldn't want one if price isn't the issue. I'd like to find out from the dealer if people are even test-driving them.

What happens if the price just keeps going up each year until they aren't selling enough to justify making them anymore? I do NOT want to see that happen, which is why I keep trying to come up with a strategy to open up sales. Maybe the 7th gen needs to be redesigned from the ground up to cover a wider range of customer. Time to leave retro behind and make it a great pony car again. By pony car I mean 4 usable seats, usable trunk with good access, reasonably open and airy cabin so you don't feel like you've climbed into a tank.

I firmly believe GM has the talent and skill to do so, it's just a question of if they are willing and want to. I certainly hope so.

Oh and as far as views go, I know Number 3's thread gets a lot of views but it also has a long-standing, popular, and running conversation. I just found it curious that the other thread I mentioned racked up that many views without a single comment in 6 months.

[laborsmith]

Pricing for the new model year Corvette is out and it is about $50 increase. That and the 2016 Corvette is at 37K units and assembling more (using tons of overtime) likely means the over $500 increase for the Camaro will send many V8 buyers to choose the Corvette over the V8 equipped Camaro. Is that turning the table?

Laborsmith

[Modshack]

Originally Posted by nvrsatisfied

I disagree, people of all ages love the Camaro and Mustang. You do have ricer groups that want the fast and furious experience, but when they blow up, they switch to Canaros and Mustangs

Ha ha! Modern cars these days only "Blow Up" if you abuse the crap out of them....I see plenty of abuse in Mustang/Camaro camp...

[Mr Twisty]

Originally Posted by Doc

Well GM has to do something including rethinking what they want the Camaro to be. The top performance models are already reaching into Corvette territory price-wise. Is it the same customer base? There might be a few but the majority of Corvette customers don't seem to want to go anywhere else. Once you approach $45k+ in price you're now in a completely different mindset and market segment. The Camaro is now there and so far the results don't seem to be what anyone who is a fan of Camaros hoped.

The local dealer here has all his 6th gens marked down $3k-$5k and they still aren't selling. Is it the insurance costs? What's the hang-up? Something has happened in the mind of the buying public that's holding them back. I'm going to have to take the time and make the trip to the dealer and see one up close (he's not that close to me) to try and figure out why anyone wouldn't want one if price isn't the issue. I'd like to find out from the dealer if people are even test-driving them.

What happens if the price just keeps going up each year until they aren't selling enough to justify making them anymore? I do NOT want to see that happen, which is why I keep trying to come up with a strategy to open up sales. Maybe the 7th gen needs to be redesigned from the ground up to cover a wider range of customer. Time to leave retro behind and make it a great pony car again. By pony car I mean 4 usable seats, usable trunk with good access, reasonably open and airy cabin so you don't feel like you've climbed into a tank.

I firmly believe GM has the talent and skill to do so, it's just a question of if they are willing and want to. I certainly hope so.

Oh and as far as views go, I know Number 3's thread gets a lot of views but it also has a long-standing, popular, and running conversation. I just found it curious that the other thread I mentioned racked up that many views without a single comment in 6 months.

At 56 yrs old I've been with the Camaro all along.....

I had a 69, no one ever sat in the back seat. For good reason.

Had a 78, no one ever sat in the back seat, same reason.

Had a few 3rd gens, one person rode in the back seat on a 150 mile trip, everyone was miserable listening to the constant complaining.

Had a 01, kids rode in back when they were little, they still preferred mom's SUV.

With a long hood/short rear deck design, none of the cars have had a good sized trunk. (ymmv)

If you ask for the car to become something it's never been, it'll no longer be what makes it what it is.....

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Mr Twisty

At 56 yrs old I've been with the Camaro all along.....

I had a 69, no one ever sat in the back seat. For good reason.

Had a 78, no one ever sat in the back seat, same reason.

Had a few 3rd gens, one person rode in the back seat on a 150 mile trip, everyone was miserable listening to the constant complaining.

Had a 01, kids rode in back when they were little, they still preferred mom's SUV.

With a long hood/short rear deck design, none of the cars have had a good sized trunk. (ymmv)

If you ask for the car to become something it's never been, it'll no longer be what makes it what it is.....

Compared to a Gen5 though is where the changes happened. You could put 4 adults in a Gen5 for a short trip to dinner. Gen6 not a chance. I could get 2 sets of golf clubs in the trunk of a Gen5 with the rear seat up. With a standard 45" driver you can't in a Gen6. So not asking any more from the car than it has done recently.

[AZCamaroFan]

Doc on the one hand you say Chevrolet should sell a base Camaro (which has 275HP and IRS ) for 20K and isn't going to happen, and on the other you bring up Camaro's priced too high at 45K, which would be a loaded SS.

[mjw930]

Originally Posted by Doc

Well GM has to do something including rethinking what they want the Camaro to be. The top performance models are already reaching into Corvette territory price-wise. Is it the same customer base? There might be a few but the majority of Corvette customers don't seem to want to go anywhere else. Once you approach $45k+ in price you're now in a completely different mindset and market segment. The Camaro is now there and so far the results don't seem to be what anyone who is a fan of Camaros hoped.

The local dealer here has all his 6th gens marked down $3k-$5k and they still aren't selling. Is it the insurance costs? What's the hang-up? Something has happened in the mind of the buying public that's holding them back. I'm going to have to take the time and make the trip to the dealer and see one up close (he's not that close to me) to try and figure out why anyone wouldn't want one if price isn't the issue. I'd like to find out from the dealer if people are even test-driving them.

What happens if the price just keeps going up each year until they aren't selling enough to justify making them anymore? I do NOT want to see that happen, which is why I keep trying to come up with a strategy to open up sales. Maybe the 7th gen needs to be redesigned from the ground up to cover a wider range of customer. Time to leave retro behind and make it a great pony car again. By pony car I mean 4 usable seats, usable trunk with good access, reasonably open and airy cabin so you don't feel like you've climbed into a tank.

I firmly believe GM has the talent and skill to do so, it's just a question of if they are willing and want to. I certainly hope so.

Oh and as far as views go, I know Number 3's thread gets a lot of views but it also has a long-standing, popular, and running conversation. I just found it curious that the other thread I mentioned racked up that many views without a single comment in 6 months.

If you are going to make comparisons make them apples to apples. Don't talk about a fully optioned SS vs. a stripped C7. You can easily take the C7 into the $90K range WITHOUT opting for the Z06.

1SS 6M = $37,295
2SS 6M = $42,296
C7 7M 1LT = $56,395 ($19,100 more than Camaro with similar options)
C7 7M 2LT = $60,850 ($18,554 more than Camaro with similar options)

When the price delta across the board as you option up the cars hovers around $19,000 I don't see how the SS is encroaching on the Corvette and swinging customers. It's been roughly the same delta for a decade. As Camaro prices creep up so do the Corvette's.

What is different is the margins. Dealer can discount a Corvette 10% and still make a little money. They can't discount half of that on a Camaro and break even so I'm fairly obvious the Camaro's MSRP is squeezed as low as it can go without dealers revolting. The Corvette, OTOH, has a lot of profit built in.

BTW, the Mustang prices for similarly equipped cars is roughly the same, it's not a Camaro thing.