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Old 12-27-2011, 09:47 PM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TaylorRyanSS View Post
Not just Camaros, I would say IMO about 95% of the cars from the late 70s to early 90s were hideous looking when I look back on them now.
Fair enough.

Though I LOVE the Corvettes and Camaros of that era.

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Originally Posted by KMPrenger View Post
Here is the link...with several interesting bits on the ATS

http://www.motortrend.com/auto_shows..._cadillac_ats/

If the info in the above article and the quote from an actual GM engineer is true, then I don't see why it can't be at least a few hundred lbs lighter. No reason it should be any more expensive because its lighter. Not like they are using lightweight expensive materials...just a new platform to start on.
That's an interesting link. There is a risk with focusing so much on weight loss...because then you end up with a car like the genesis coupe - sure it's super-light for its size, but it's a tin can.

The good news for all of us here is that this architecture has been built first for Cadillac, and Cadillac has BMW dead in its sights. Refinement is of the utmost importance...and nothing helps achieve refinement, quietness, and smoothness like a stiff body. That rigidity will serve performance variants, we've seen its benefits in the existing Camaro.

So....with all this in mind...the 3-series is about 3400 lbs with a straight 6. Say Caddy can beat that with their 4 cylinder model, achieving 3200 lbs @ 190 hp - that means a V8 model could theoretically hit right around 3500 lbs @ 400+ hp. Add some expensive weight-saving techniques and materials....this moderator can see a 450hp, 3400 lb Camaro in the distant future.

All speculation on my part. Bottom line is they seem to be focusing in all the right places. And if we, Camaro enthusiasts, have to survive with a 6th generation Camaro based off of the ATS....Heck, I'm not going to complain!!!!
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Old 12-27-2011, 11:22 PM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
And outside of a few unfortunate incidents like yours (to be expected in a car that people actually drive)...the car is remarkably durable and easy-to-modify. Astounding!
True, I will agree that out of ALL the cars I've wrenched on..modding the 5th gen was by far the easiest one to wrench on. The reason why I got out was to hit the levels of performance I wanted the 5th gen platform just wasn't right. Too much expense and frustration!

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Originally Posted by Fraxum View Post
Yes i agree the 5th gen is breakable. Weight aggravates things but there is some under-engineering here on the drive train. 4th gens are even worse. We can only hope the 6th gen is better.

We will have to disagree about the handling. Stock there is too much understeer. But this is easily curable. And slow in the 1/4? There are cam and bolton cars running in the 10s at stock weight with no power adders. Seems fast to me.
4th gens had throwaway rear ends....that's for sure...ask me how I know. Jumping to a car with a 3,245 pound curb weight has me giggling like a little school girl I did all the suspension mods, and the car had no issues whipping around a road course.

I had a 470 rwhp full bolt on cam car that was turning 12.1 @ 116..please show me a cam only 5th gen in the 10s at stock weight...this I gotta see.
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Old 12-28-2011, 12:26 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
Fair enough.

Though I LOVE the Corvettes and Camaros of that era.
Maybe you had to actually be alive to appreciate them at the time, I was born in '89 lol.
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Old 12-28-2011, 12:34 AM   #172
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Maybe you had to actually be alive to appreciate them at the time, I was born in '89 lol.
So was I, ironically.

Perhaps the difference is I grew up with a '79 Z28 in our garage.
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Old 12-28-2011, 01:11 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
So was I, ironically.

Perhaps the difference is I grew up with a '79 Z28 in our garage.
Oh I thought you were older. I never really liked old cars growing up. I loved exotics lol. I say probably around 14 or so is when I got into the old muscle cars (the ones from the 60s)
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Old 12-28-2011, 01:31 AM   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Sun View Post
this thread is full of lolz
Stay classy with the "I'm adding constructive critisim and/or arguing my point on the next gen Camaro" there, kiddo. And I don't care if you're 40. You act like you're 14. Post something constructive, lurk, or gtfo. kthxbai.
As for my comments on past gens, the first was pure sarcasm (even noted in the post if you know where to 'find it') With the 2nd gen, that was just personal taste but I was in no way bashing the 2nd gen or 4th gens. I've driven all but the 1st gen. My dad owned a White/Blue stripe '79 Z. My mom owned 3 Camaros (Green 68, Island Teal 69, Dark Blue 77). I've got F-Body running in my veins. And what I stated was my opinion as to where the Camaro should go design/marketing direction wise.

Just an opinion, not truly a 'ZOMG TEH 67 WUZ DUMB NO 24 RIMZ YO LOLZ" bash..
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Old 12-28-2011, 03:57 PM   #175
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Lighter weight is not always better as compromises must be made. I saw a small hybrid car that was hit from behind that looks like it was made with thick tin foil. I want more mass around me in a 580 hp Camaro - just in case! I have one Camaro from each generation so far and have really been into Camaros since Gen. 2. Every time a new gen was produced (67, 70, 82, 93 and 2010) the hype surrounding these cars was phenomenal. The models were always "new and improved" with cool innovations and the magazines drooled over the new Camaro. Only after years of hard driving did we notice shortcomings of each generation. Gen 5 stock cars have issues (except of course for the ZL1!!) and gen 6 will be no different. I'll still plan to buy a good performance gen 6 model no matter what.
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Old 12-28-2011, 06:39 PM   #176
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I have always been a Camaro fan, owned a 1988, 2001, 2002(current) and my 2011 1SS(current)... 4th Gen style is still my Favorite... I will definitely look into the 6th Gen when it is available, I will surely be interested if the 6th Gen is less weight with OddBall motor combos, like the Eco Turbo 4 Banger with about 310hp or a Turbo/TwinTurbo V-6.... Hopefully it will be a pleasant sight when it becomes available.... Does it count that I had a 1969 Z/28 shell for about 2 weeks ????
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Old 12-28-2011, 08:03 PM   #177
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GM needs to make the Camaro lighter people... Anyone that thinks their 5th gens are great at handling stock or with some minor mods are on drugs! Haha its a brick.... Go drive a Boss 302 or just a GT at a track & then come back on here & tell me which one you like more. Like I & other mentioned Camaros got the look & its name. That's where it ends. The LS3 is a great engine but not when the car its in can weigh close to 4,xxx lbs!

For people who are saying just add hp instead of lowering the weight should just go ahead & because that's the dumbest thing a car company could do. Why add a huge amount of power when it will barely go anywhere because it weighs so much. Compared to a car with a little less hp & weighs 300-400 lbs less?? Look at the older GT500. Its a brick & a half & barely beat 5th gens. Heavy performance cars are pointless. Weight is a huge factor in a lot of things. Hence why all the rear super cars are all carbon fiber etc so it doesn't weigh much. Weight in certain spots is great. But that's a whole other thing. For drag racing, at the track, & getting good mpg. You want that weight down. Adding more hp & keeping the weight would just put all those to shame

If anyone at GM is reading this get that 6th gen Camaro in the Mustang range of 35xx lbs
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Old 12-28-2011, 08:05 PM   #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoggyB22 View Post
GM needs to make the Camaro lighter people... Anyone that thinks their 5th gens are great at handling stock or with some minor mods are on drugs!
Is that right?

It's not a Miata, but the Camaro handles just fine. Moderate body roll and .9 G in standard SS trim is up there in some very fine company. It's achilles' heel is a tendancy to understeer that the 2012 FE4 suspension fixed a bit.

Naturally it can and will get better with the next generation, but I think you're grossly under-representing the car's ability as it is.
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Old 12-28-2011, 08:10 PM   #179
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...didn't have time to go thru this thread - but let me say this:

Anything - ANYTHING - you read about a 6th Gen Camaro from "Insiders" should be taken with a grain of salt substitute. (that's worse that a grain of salt.....)

IF we are working on a 6th gen - you can believe that any info. is very proprietary and anyone that says they know what's going on (unless their last name is Reuss, Oppenheiser, Pilcher, Clark, Fitzpatrick, or a hand-ful of others - ) --- they're not being truthful.

Take that to the bank.

Now - I'm NOT saying we don't care about what you think - we do and that's why we travel and sit and talk with many of you one-on-one - and that's why we have our 15 Disciples (who will be visiting with us once again very shortly) -
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Old 12-28-2011, 08:22 PM   #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
...didn't have time to go thru this thread - but let me say this:

Anything - ANYTHING - you read about a 6th Gen Camaro from "Insiders" should be taken with a grain of salt substitute. (that's worse that a grain of salt.....)

IF we are working on a 6th gen - you can believe that any info. is very proprietary and anyone that says they know what's going on (unless their last name is Reuss, Oppenheiser, Pilcher, Clark, Fitzpatrick, or a hand-ful of others - ) --- they're not being truthful.

Take that to the bank.

Now - I'm NOT saying we don't care about what you think - we do and that's why we travel and sit and talk with many of you one-on-one - and that's why we have our 15 Disciples (who will be visiting with us once again very shortly) -
Hello there Fbodfather!!

I can completely understand how you wouldn't have time to go through a thread like this...but just in case you get the time, or some members of the Camaro team get time a thread like this can be priceless because I feel it shows what your Camaro customer base wants.

If anything, going over the past 3 to 4 pages would be a good read on what people want from their next Gen Camaro. I have faith in you guys, and I know you work hard to make sure you deliever what you want...just don't pass up on this free and easy to get customer feedback!

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Old 12-28-2011, 08:35 PM   #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoggyB22 View Post
GM needs to make the Camaro lighter people... Anyone that thinks their 5th gens are great at handling stock or with some minor mods are on drugs! Haha its a brick.... Go drive a Boss 302 or just a GT at a track & then come back on here & tell me which one you like more. Like I & other mentioned Camaros got the look & its name. That's where it ends. The LS3 is a great engine but not when the car its in can weigh close to 4,xxx lbs!

For people who are saying just add hp instead of lowering the weight should just go ahead & because that's the dumbest thing a car company could do. Why add a huge amount of power when it will barely go anywhere because it weighs so much. Compared to a car with a little less hp & weighs 300-400 lbs less?? Look at the older GT500. Its a brick & a half & barely beat 5th gens. Heavy performance cars are pointless. Weight is a huge factor in a lot of things. Hence why all the rear super cars are all carbon fiber etc so it doesn't weigh much. Weight in certain spots is great. But that's a whole other thing. For drag racing, at the track, & getting good mpg. You want that weight down. Adding more hp & keeping the weight would just put all those to shame

If anyone at GM is reading this get that 6th gen Camaro in the Mustang range of 35xx lbs
Yeah, all these supercars are super light.

Off the top of my head, there's the 3800 Audi R8 5.2, the 3700 lb Lamborghini Aventador, the 3600 lb Aston Martin One 77, and the 3500 lb Lexus LFA.
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Old 12-28-2011, 08:49 PM   #182
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hmm are we done with the zl1 already ?
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