[mkorgan]

Again, I can tell you that I have also done competitive sales incentives but I perceive them much different than you do. When you offer an incentive to pull people from your competition you typically do that when you see a weakness in your competitions offering.

Not sure if you noticed but there are spy shot going around today of a refresh of the Mustang only two years after it last generation launch. The rumor (Autoblog) is that Mustang has got a lot of feedback from owners and focus groups that their styling is less than hoped for. Their sales appear to be strong but it is due to fleet sales and large discounts and 0% financing on the Mustangs. IF this is accurate, then GM could very well think now is a great time to strike prior to the refresh coming out as previous generation owners who are less than thrilled with the new generation styling may reconsider the Camaro rather than wait for the refresh.

Cutting price does not mean you are not getting the results you want. For example, I sell a few of my services cheaper now than I did a year or even two years ago due to improved efficiencies in delivering the service which allow me to keep my margin safe but drop my price. This is extremely common in manufacturing were improvement are made almost constantly. GM learned a lot of lessons in the bankruptcy, specifically how to maintain profitability is a dynamic, competitive market. Prior to the bankruptcy, GM actually sold cars where they lost money on each unit so I am sure they are being hyper vigilant in not repeating history.

[FNxR3DNECK]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

Camaro currently at 8% fleet sales YTD. Mustang at 35% fleet YTD.
http://www.autonews.com/article/2016...-sales-aug-ytd

Take away the heavy rental fleet sales and deeper discounts for the Mustang and sales are relatively even.

Wow that fleet sales number shows a huge difference! I wonder what the total sales difference would look like if you too out Fleet sales. Of course the stang would still be winning, but it's pretty significant that Ford sales 4x as many in fleet sales.

[MEDISIN]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

That site requires a login, FYI.

You give the money, they give the data. Funny how that works.

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

1LS reintroduced:

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=466958

They renamed the 1LT manual the 1LS and offer it for a whopping $400 less. I've spent more on sushi than that.

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

Price Drop on multiple trims:

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=466246

You mean MSRP drop on a few trims with high inventory. Which amounts to...squat unless you're in the market for a convertible heading into winter.

The "LT" convertibles drop $2k and the SS convertibles drop $1k. Interesting I guess.

The automatic 1LT coupe drops from $27,700 to $26,600 which is a pointless MSRP reduction as JDPin shows the average transaction price of the 1LT is $25,100 already.

1SS coupe, no change. 2SS coupe, no change. ZL1 coupe, no change, ZL1 convertible, no change. 1LE SS, no change, 1LE V6, no change.

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

$2,000 Mustang conquest

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2016/09/...-ford-mustang/

Like I said..these are not indicitive of everything going "according to plan".

Targeted sales gimmick for narrow conquest demographic. Yawn. Ford is offering 0% for 72 months on 2016 Mustangs. Does that mean things "are not going according to plan"? Perhaps you would be so kind as to post the revenue targets for both models so we can see who is closer to goal at this point in their life-cycle.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

1LS reintroduced:

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=466958

Price Drop on multiple trims:

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=466246

$2,000 Mustang conquest

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2016/09/...-ford-mustang/

Like I said..these are not indicitive of everything going "according to plan".

Nor did I say everything was going according to plan. Forgive me, but your posts appear to have a negative undertone to them...maybe I'm reading too deeply into it.

The introduction of a LS model is a good thing for the folks who simply want a cheap, no-nonsense sporty-looking car. (And there are a lot of those people...see: Mustang sales)

Thank you for posting those, though - I missed a lot of it. I'm glad to see Chevrolet responding to the market.

[shaffe]

We can all talk about sales/profits all day long. What you can really look at to see its not selling how they thought is inventory. You do not build up that much inventory (IIRC it was something over 100 days worth of inventory) unless you planned on moving it. The inventory built up shows that they initially anticipated better sales. Does that mean they are concerened, maybe slightly but nothing to panic about.

They don't need to hit Mustang levels of volume, but you look at the inventory that is built up, you can tell they expected to sell more than they are.

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

Nor did I say everything was going according to plan. Forgive me, but your posts appear to have a negative undertone to them...maybe I'm reading too deeply into it.

The introduction of a LS model is a good thing for the folks who simply want a cheap, no-nonsense sporty-looking car. (And there are a lot of those people...see: Mustang sales)

Thank you for posting those, though - I missed a lot of it. I'm glad to see Chevrolet responding to the market.

Yeah...I apologize for that, I work in corporate hell and have been in bullcrap meetings all morning..even my texts to my family have a negative undertone sometimes.

I assure you, I'm very much pro-Camaro and pro-GM.

[crysalis_01]

Originally Posted by mkorgan

Again, I can tell you that I have also done competitive sales incentives but I perceive them much different than you do. When you offer an incentive to pull people from your competition you typically do that when you see a weakness in your competitions offering.

Not sure if you noticed but there are spy shot going around today of a refresh of the Mustang only two years after it last generation launch. The rumor (Autoblog) is that Mustang has got a lot of feedback from owners and focus groups that their styling is less than hoped for. Their sales appear to be strong but it is due to fleet sales and large discounts and 0% financing on the Mustangs. IF this is accurate, then GM could very well think now is a great time to strike prior to the refresh coming out as previous generation owners who are less than thrilled with the new generation styling may reconsider the Camaro rather than wait for the refresh.

Cutting price does not mean you are not getting the results you want. For example, I sell a few of my services cheaper now than I did a year or even two years ago due to improved efficiencies in delivering the service which allow me to keep my margin safe but drop my price. This is extremely common in manufacturing were improvement are made almost constantly. GM learned a lot of lessons in the bankruptcy, specifically how to maintain profitability is a dynamic, competitive market. Prior to the bankruptcy, GM actually sold cars where they lost money on each unit so I am sure they are being hyper vigilant in not repeating history.

Well, seeing as gen7 Mustang, chassis coded S650 is to launch in CY 2020, I'd say a MCE of S550 for MY '18 sounds par for the course.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

Well, seeing as gen7 Mustang, chassis coded S650 is to launch in CY 2020, I'd say a MCE of S550 for MY '18 sounds par for the course.

It will be interesting to see what direction Ford decides to take with the S650. Continue on the softer, mass appeal path or attempted to close the performance gap.

The T-Bird vs Corvette analogy. The two companies chose different paths and ended very differently. The 55 T-Bird was sporty but softer and outsold the Corvette 4 or 5 to 1 on average through the 50s and 60s, got a back seat, bigger and bigger...

Its stated often that enthusiasts are a small percentage of buyers and, in the Mustang circles, they are accepting of the current situation. Give them a bigger trunk and back seat with even better visibility. A EcoBoost Accord with a pony on the grill.

[JAZ]

Originally Posted by FNxR3DNECK

Wow that fleet sales number shows a huge difference! I wonder what the total sales difference would look like if you too out Fleet sales. Of course the stang would still be winning, but it's pretty significant that Ford sales 4x as many in fleet sales.

I wonder what the total sales difference wood look like if you added in overseas sales?

[mkorgan]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

Well, seeing as gen7 Mustang, chassis coded S650 is to launch in CY 2020, I'd say a MCE of S550 for MY '18 sounds par for the course.

Possible, just seems very early to me for Ford to be scrapping the Gen6 or at the very least refreshing it with such "strong" numbers for the current model, unless things aren't exactly as they appear.

I want to make it clear, I am not a Mustang hater. Quite the opposite, I am a fan of the muscle car market and love the big three pushing each other. I want Ford to make the best possible Mustang because I believe it forces GM to advance the Camaro. I just think that sales and sales strategize are not always indicative of the true health of a product line or the possible problems we can't see.

[newmoon]

The problem with the new GT is simple. If just doesn't have enough power to compete in non GT350 form. In todays market 435 -hp and 400-tq which struggles at low-end power, just doesn't cut it. It can't compete with the Scatpack's 485/485, and the SS with 455/455 with gobbs of power available low in the RPM band

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

Yeah...I apologize for that, I work in corporate hell and have been in bullcrap meetings all morning..even my texts to my family have a negative undertone sometimes.

I assure you, I'm very much pro-Camaro and pro-GM.

All good.

Originally Posted by newmoon

The problem with the new GT is simple. If just doesn't have enough power to compete in non GT350 form. In todays market 435 -hp and 400-tq which struggles at low-end power, just doesn't cut it. It can't compete with the Scatpack's 485/485, and the SS with 455/455 with gobbs of power available low in the RPM band

This is true...in terms of performance. In base form, the suspension setup is underwhelming, as well.

But from a sales stand point...it's a car with a big loud V8 for less than the competition...that's all a lot of people want.


EDIT: Back on topic....The Camaro 4 and 6s are better than their Mustang counterparts...the V6 1LE being faster than a GT around a track...The GT doesn't hold any weight vs the SS, and the SS 1LE is already nipping at the heels of the GT350R...depending on the driver and the track, it's faster. The ZL1 is going to simply obliterate it, and be comfy and "luxurious" on the road...and the Z/28 or ZL1.R...or whatever that crazy thing with the wing is....is going to own the track beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Annd...Mustangs everywhere are threats to public safety while meeting for cars and coffee. (I had to ) So in terms of reputation and performance, I think Ford is going to be very sad, .

[crysalis_01]

Originally Posted by mkorgan

Possible, just seems very early to me for Ford to be scrapping the Gen6 or at the very least refreshing it with such "strong" numbers for the current model, unless things aren't exactly as they appear.

I want to make it clear, I am not a Mustang hater. Quite the opposite, I am a fan of the muscle car market and love the big three pushing each other. I want Ford to make the best possible Mustang because I believe it forces GM to advance the Camaro. I just think that sales and sales strategize are not always indicative of the true health of a product line or the possible problems we can't see.

From what I've been able to glean, the reason S550 will be somewhat abbreviated (shortest gen since gen2) is that S550, as much of a massive improvement over S197 as it is, wasn't given "maximum effort" due to Mustang waiting for the D6 platform.

I'm not saying S550 didn't meet all the goals set forth by Ford for the gen6 Mustang, just that the goals themselves and thusly the R&D may have been throttled back just a bit knowing full well D6 was right around the corner.

But, it's all speculation until official info is disclosed. . . if It ever is.

[Hypertrophy]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

... I work in corporate hell and have been in bullcrap meetings all morning...