[Number 3]

Oh yeah, and………Berlinetta

[90503]

Just a couple of random comments....I went to the 6th Gen reveal roadshow in LA many years back and took a good look at the 6th Gen Camaro...met Al O. ( who signed my 5th Gen )....As much as I liked the hp numbers, lighter weight, better handling, etc., of the 6th Gen, it was just too cramped and claustrophobic for me in the cabin. I was disappointed. I couldn't see myself comfortably tracking a 6thGen with a helmet on that wouldn't even fit through the window if it had to...Anyhoo I stuck with my 5th Gen and have no regrets.

As far as styling, in hindsight I still like the 5th Gen better. I'm a retro fan and as far as overall sales goes, I believe the 5thGen primarily owed it's success to the popularity and nostalgia of the first gen Camaros. Remember "Legacy Wheels", "Heritage Grill", "69 Gauge Console", etc,? The 6thGen and Chevy seemed to want to distance itself from all that and move on to different styling. Remember, "oh, we gotta sell these thing in Europe so we need to cater to their tastes," etc...

It wasn't a trunk size, or visibility issue, it was the styling IMO. Pony car class styling includes a small trunk. If trunks and visibility were deal killers, why did Cruze die? Why did Impala die? Trunks and visibility didn't help those models. The 5thGen trunk and visibility was smaller than Challenger, but still vastly outsold it.

Challenger stayed with their look, Mustangs marched on without internally berating or bashing their own current or previous models as unsellable to new buyers as it seems gm and a few on this forum are on a crusade to do.

If anything, it seems to me the 6th Gen was a good candidate for going hatch-back to spark some new interest. (And they could have then called it a cross-over and gained instant acclaim...lol) Maybe too much of a change to justify, but would have been worth a try.

That's all for now...lol...

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Sorry, but visibility, trunk space and a reasonable rear seat are what keeps the Camaro from having broader appeal. That is not smoke and mirrors, that's just the facts. A lot of people have taken your postion over the years and it holds true ONLY if you are looking for a V8 car and buying on the performance. If you are just looking for a sporty coupe? You have different expectations, and the V6/I4 performance is not enough to get you to ignore the visibility and trunk space.

.

This ^ this is the part people seem to forget and ignore. The base car doesn't get the performance offsets these shortcomings. The base car makes up over 70% of the sales.

[AZCamaroFan]

wait...wait...what

base car, are you talking about the turbo 4 that's as fast to 60 as an 4thgn LT1 Z28?
or the 6 cylinder that's as fast as the LS1 ?

[shaffe]

It's great the base performs better than cars that 20+ years old. Still doesn't change the fact that majority of base engine buyers aren't putting performance above other things like people who are looking at SS+ trims would.

[GearheadSS]

Originally Posted by shaffe

It's great the base performs better than cars that 20+ years old. Still doesn't change the fact that majority of base engine buyers aren't putting performance above other things like people who are looking at SS+ trims would.

This. The base 6th gens are great cars. I still actually really like the 2.0T cars. We've had 2 Camaros and an ATS with the 2.0T and it's a great engine. My wife loved both of her 2.0T Camaros and because she loved the cars, she was willing to overlook the lack or space and visibility issues. My wife is not most folks though.

Now, I will say that the visibility issues, while there, are not as big of a deal as some folks make it out to be. The trunk and rear seat room are a big deal for a lot of people.

[len125]

thanks for the replies...good dialogue....lots of passion and information...glad i started the WHY CANT CHEVY question....I had a 1990 chevy cavalier and a 2003 chevy monte carlo...great cars...but i love my 2021 2LT Camaro with the npp exhaust. the 3.6 V6 335hp engine is fantastic for me...i love the engine, looks, and everything about the car. Speed and power when I need it, great cruiser as well...I'm glad GM brought back the camaro for the last 14 years, its been a blessing....

[Alan47717]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Woah there my friend. Merely being a historian here. Never ever said the base Camaro was somehow an awesome car back then. I think we even had the “Iron Duke” 4 cylinder as you pointed out but those were the emissions days. Heck my moms Trans Am had 145 HP.


And we also had the 100 HP 2.8L which was nice…..not.

I think I am reporting history as well, just from a different point of view. And my view is you can't sit still, particularly in a market segment with such a passionate clientele and too often GM not only sits still but nails their shoes to the floor.

You brought up the "Iron Duck" so here goes. Had nothing to with emissions. Simply rationalization of production volumes with no regard to product character. Some excess Iron Duke volume here, a car that needed some engines there and Bingo, a match made in hell, umm heaven. I'm sure there were people who cared about the car at the time who would have jumped out of windows if the Tech Center had tall enough buildings.

[JT6Speed]

Originally Posted by shaffe

It's great the base performs better than cars that 20+ years old. Still doesn't change the fact that majority of base engine buyers aren't putting performance above other things like people who are looking at SS+ trims would.

Right. It gets easier to overlook the issues as you go higher up the ladder. Me personally, it's V8 or nothing. I'd daily drive a Civic Si over a base Camaro in all honesty. Might as well have the extra doors and storage, FWD, etc.

[AZCamaroFan]

i'd walk instead.

[Alan47717]

Originally Posted by GearheadSS

This. The base 6th gens are great cars. I still actually really like the 2.0T cars. We've had 2 Camaros and an ATS with the 2.0T and it's a great engine. My wife loved both of her 2.0T Camaros and because she loved the cars, she was willing to overlook the lack or space and visibility issues. My wife is not most folks though.

Now, I will say that the visibility issues, while there, are not as big of a deal as some folks make it out to be. The trunk and rear seat room are a big deal for a lot of people.

I have two 2.0t engines, one in my Equinox with the 9spd auto and of course in my Camaro with the 6spd manual. It's a great engine and I love it in both cars.

I just hauled $175 worth of groceries home from Walmart the other day and I have had 8 foot pieces of baseboard trim in it so I manage to stumble along with the trunk space.

As far as the visibility goes, it's a sports car, if you can't maintain awareness of your surroundings and use your mirrors properly don't buy one.

As far as the back seat goes, it's main purpose in life is to keep your insurance premiums down. Whenever I and my three roommates in college went somewhere together we did not take the '69 Camaro one of them had, we took my '65 Catalina. Anyone whose decision to buy a 6th gen or not seriously involves back seat room really isn't a serious buyer to begin with. Just tourists.

[V8 Firebird]

Toyota is only automaker still giving you most sports car options, but they don't sell many.

[Rock-It Man]

Originally Posted by Spaceme1117

GM, Ford, Dodge (or whatever the F they are called) haven't got a clue what people want. And they are being dictated to by the current gubment a-holes as to what to make.

Full electric?! Never going to happen.

Full electric will in fact happen...ICE replaced horses, and electric cars will replace ICE cars. And in fact, while I love my newly acquired ZL1 gas guzzler, 99.9 percent of the people don't know and don't care about what I got.

Instead, the majority of young adults, including my kids, care about the disastrous effects of global warming and think I'm a criminal for owning this car. GM and other car makers are embracing green energy, which means not just electric cars, but solar and wind power to generate electricity.

Electric cars are beautiful: quiet, quick, and low maintenance... and as soon as recharging is readily available, I will be looking for a 1000+ hp electric super car...if I live that long.

Long live science and technology!

[Anjilslaire]

Originally Posted by Rock-It Man

Full electric will in fact happen...ICE replaced horses, and electric cars will replace ICE cars. And in fact, while I love my newly acquired ZL1 gas guzzler, 99.9 percent of the people don't know and don't care about what I got.

Instead, the majority of young adults, including my kids, care about the disastrous effects of global warming and think I'm a criminal for owning this car. GM and other car makers are embracing green energy, which means not just electric cars, but solar and wind power to generate electricity.

Electric cars are beautiful: quiet, quick, and low maintenance... and as soon as recharging is readily available, I will be looking for a 1000+ hp electric super car...if I live that long.

Long live science and technology!

This right here ^^^^