Z/28: Now...or '16?

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

I know there are no exact numbers as its not even out yet, however wasn't it mentioned on the forum not to expect more than 150-200 lbs reduction in weight for the 6th Gen?

Sounds about right. We have little more than rumors on what the ATS will be like. But the ATS isn't a 6th gen Camaro. So to use the ATS as a guide to the 6th gen is speculating on speculation.

Now ... where did the 150-200 lb weight reduction come from? I haven't got a clue. It may have arisen from some people were /hoping that it would be 300-400 lbs less in the next generation and then I, or somoene like me, countered with something like "yeah, I wouldn't expect it to be more than half that". Thats what happens when you repeat a rumours and speculation often enough: you forget what its based on & start thinking of it as some sort of fact.

[Kyle2k]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Sounds about right. We have little more than rumors on what the ATS will be like. But the ATS isn't a 6th gen Camaro. So to use the ATS as a guide to the 6th gen is speculating on speculation.

Now ... where did the 150-200 lb weight reduction come from? I haven't got a clue. It may have arisen from some people were /hoping that it would be 300-400 lbs less in the next generation and then I, or somoene like me, countered with something like "yeah, I wouldn't expect it to be more than half that". Thats what happens when you repeat a rumours and speculation often enough: you forget what its based on & start thinking of it as some sort of fact.

I think I remember reading you saying something like "Camaro5 was started based on speculation." Yet every thread someone is hypothesizing - usually related to weight - it always seems to get over analyzed. Yes, take what you hear with a grain of salt but please let us "have our faith"

And in regards to the ATS-V's power - if they are targeting the M3 - I expect it to be at least 450 as the current M3 is going out with about that much.

[wildpaws]

Originally Posted by htron50

The new ATS Alpha platform and TT v6 are openly discussed here. It discusses weight, HP, times; We seem to be headed that way. Dunno about a Z28 being a TTV6; V8 still fits in engine bay! So........... maybe!

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/05/04/c...urbo-v6-power/

The Autoblog article was from back in May 2011, I think this engine lineup is more current:
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f...ac-ats-107714/

Clyde

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Kyle2k

I think I remember reading you saying something like "Camaro5 was started based on speculation." Yet every thread someone is hypothesizing - usually related to weight - it always seems to get over analyzed. Yes, take what you hear with a grain of salt but please let us "have our faith"

And in regards to the ATS-V's power - if they are targeting the M3 - I expect it to be at least 450 as the current M3 is going out with about that much.

yup, sound like me

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by chevysno1

Man all those numbers look great ,except one the 320 hr V6 weight of 3992. there is one thing, I believe that by the next generation 6, in 2015 there will not be a ZL1, instead We will finally see a Z28 .

That number was wrong. Typo on my part. I edited the post.

I don't feel we have to have one or the other...Corvette has Z06 AND ZR1...I think we could have Z28 AND ZL1...each serves its own purpose...

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

I know there are no exact numbers as its not even out yet, however wasn't it mentioned on the forum not to expect more than 150-200 lbs reduction in weight for the 6th Gen?

I think that was influenced by a horrible article claiming the alpha-based ATS was heavier than the current CTS...people were speculating in fear. It all depends on one critical factor: SIZE. The ATS could be as much as a full foot shorter than the current Camaro...up to 4-5 inches reduction in width...think of all the material that removes, and the weight associated. Since then, there's been numerous verbal commitments on the part of Cadillac engineers that the ATS will be nimble, light, and fun to drive.

And now, there's "hard" evidence that the Alpha-based Cadillac could be as much as 200 lbs lighter than the 3300 lb BMW 3-series...If the 6th gen is based off of that car -- it's good news all around.

Originally Posted by htron50

The new ATS Alpha platform and TT v6 are openly discussed here. It discusses weight, HP, times; We seem to be headed that way. Dunno about a Z28 being a TTV6; V8 still fits in engine bay! So........... maybe!

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/05/04/c...urbo-v6-power/

I believe it's possible. I don't believe that will translate directly to Camaro, though. It's been confirmed that ATS will feature 3 engine options in base trim...add a V-series and now there's FOUR different engines?? Wow...

Also consider that GM has recently invested over a billion dollars in Gen V V8 engine production. Retooling plants...I think they've got an ace up their sleeve with that engine family. Like OldSchool, I believe high-performance cars in the company will still rely on the Small Block Chevy for the foreseeable future.

Originally Posted by wildpaws

The Autoblog article was from back in May 2011, I think this engine lineup is more current:
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f...ac-ats-107714/

Clyde

Yup! That's all accurate information from GM themselves. What Autoblog was talking about was a V-series Caddy ATS. I don't think GM has even mentioned that car.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Sounds about right. We have little more than rumors on what the ATS will be like. But the ATS isn't a 6th gen Camaro. So to use the ATS as a guide to the 6th gen is speculating on speculation.

Now ... where did the 150-200 lb weight reduction come from? I haven't got a clue. It may have arisen from some people were /hoping that it would be 300-400 lbs less in the next generation and then I, or somoene like me, countered with something like "yeah, I wouldn't expect it to be more than half that". Thats what happens when you repeat a rumours and speculation often enough: you forget what its based on & start thinking of it as some sort of fact.

Thanks for the information on the speculation for which there has been much anticipation.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

That number was wrong. Typo on my part. I edited the post.

I don't feel we have to have one or the other...Corvette has Z06 AND ZR1...I think we could have Z28 AND ZL1...each serves its own purpose...


I think that was influenced by a horrible article claiming the alpha-based ATS was heavier than the current CTS...people were speculating in fear. It all depends on one critical factor: SIZE. The ATS could be as much as a full foot shorter than the current Camaro...up to 4-5 inches reduction in width...think of all the material that removes, and the weight associated. Since then, there's been numerous verbal commitments on the part of Cadillac engineers that the ATS will be nimble, light, and fun to drive.

And now, there's "hard" evidence that the Alpha-based Cadillac could be as much as 200 lbs lighter than the 3300 lb BMW 3-series...If the 6th gen is based off of that car -- it's good news all around.


I believe it's possible. I don't believe that will translate directly to Camaro, though. It's been confirmed that ATS will feature 3 engine options in base trim...add a V-series and now there's FOUR different engines?? Wow...

Also consider that GM has recently invested over a billion dollars in Gen V V8 engine production. Retooling plants...I think they've got an ace up their sleeve with that engine family. Like OldSchool, I believe high-performance cars in the company will still rely on the Small Block Chevy for the foreseeable future.


Yup! That's all accurate information from GM themselves. What Autoblog was talking about was a V-series Caddy ATS. I don't think GM has even mentioned that car.

Just being a bit of a devils advocate here ...

What if the Cadillac version of the platform is based on an aluminum structure while the Camaro utilizes cheaper steel?

Also, while we know that the ATS is going to be Alpha based, I'm pretty sure the next gen CTS is too. I'm thinking that the Camaro may be based off of the larger variant of the car, rather than the smaller one. I say this because I don't expect a V8 in the ATS while the next gen CTS (and Camaro) will need V8s. And if they're doing 2 variants of the platform, with 2 different power train combinations, I would expect the Camaro to get the most ... robust version with the more powerful engines. They can still hack it down to smaller dimensions, but I foresee the next gen Camaro being a much 'denser' car compared to the ATS. Of course, this idea goes out the window if the ATS-V is a supercharged (or turbocharged) V8 cranking out over 600 hp.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Just being a bit of a devils advocate here ...

I'm going to quote this in the 6th gen thread.

[2cnd chance]

A ?
Can the aftermarket make a DI system work on an LS3 or LS7?

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

A ?
Can the aftermarket make a DI system work on an LS3 or LS7?

They'd need the capacity to design and manufacture new heads, access to control software/hardware, as well as the engineering prowess to program the SIDI system. I think they could...but I don't think any aftermarket company yet has the ability or desire to do something that demanding...

[wildpaws]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

A ?
Can the aftermarket make a DI system work on an LS3 or LS7?

I'm sure there are some companies that could, the question is would the public be willing to pay enough for it for them to make a profit. That would mean enough sales to justify the development costs, etc. and I'm not sure there is enough market out there to support that. I think many people will look at a crate engine with DI later rather than buying aftermarket DI and modifying their current engine. Or I might be totally wrong.
Clyde

[2cnd chance]

Thanks guys.

[OldScoolCamaro]

Well, with all due respect, Dragoneye mentioned earlier that weight is on a historical increase across all models due to the structural integrity, convienience packages, and safety improvements with the associated addition to hardware. It's going to plateau at some point. But Slim Fast programs for production autos'? Weight concerns, and all the emotion behind that? Nothing is going to happen soon to squelch that argument. Soon, in the not so distant future, we will will come to a HP to weight ratio that will meet Gov MPG reg's and satisfy the standards. DI, with some new manufacturing techonlogy will achieve that.

[htron50]

Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro

we will will come to a HP to weight ratio that will meet Gov MPG reg's and satisfy the standards. DI, with some new manufacturing techonlogy will achieve that.

YA HEARD!