[SS 1LE]

Originally Posted by motorhead

The gen5 car is getting very dated looking.

I agree. I am a lifelong Camaro guy, I've had a first gen, a third gen, two forth gens, a fifth gen and I will be getting a sixth gen. I never got on board with the fifth gen. I kind of just bought it since it was the next Camaro. It's styling always felt to me to come off as a soft 1969 wannabe. The interior is really what did it in for me, and I sold it after only like a year and got into two Coyote Mustangs after that. I was pretty dead set on a 2016 Mustang, but I said let me wait and see what GM does to the new Camaro. I liked it right away, it was like they took the fifth gen, and sent it to a finishing school ran by Black Sabbath. It just has a much more aggressive, hunkered down look. I still am not totally sold on the back, but with the blade spoiler and quad tip exhaust, it is growing on me a lot too. And, of course the performance gains were more than I think anyone imagined.

Yes, they raised the prices, but for what they did, and what you get it is still a performance bargin. Some will shy away due to costs, but that doesn't bother me. I actually like the fact they don't sell like crazy. I see new Mustangs everywhere, and living in Florida Mustang rentals are like all over the place. I really thought about a GT350 regardless, but the extra cost doesn't justify the slight performance gains, and the SS 1LE may match it anyway.

All the bickering over sales between Camaro and Mustang people is comical and annoying. The only thing the Mustang folks have is a sales advantage, who really brags about that? In most cases the better, more expensive item will sell less than the cheaper more ho humm item anyway. But who cares, buy what you like...and be GLAD we have three American muscle cars like this to choose from. It won't last forever with all the forthcoming EPA and CAFE crap. V8's and larger will become very rare and expensive commodities on new cars down the road I think...

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by Davy_Baby9

Should have picked better pics, the 5th gen 1LE looks better there, and the z28 looks meaner. The 6th gen interior does look better.

The 1LE is supposed to look more aggressive when compared to a standard SS. The G6 1LE will add the front spitter, wider wheels and tires, hood wrap, painted calipers, etc. and it will look more aggressive as intended.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by SS 1LE

I agree. I am a lifelong Camaro guy, I've had a first gen, a third gen, two forth gens, a fifth gen and I will be getting a sixth gen. I never got on board with the fifth gen. I kind of just bought it since it was the next Camaro. It's styling always felt to me to come off as a soft 1969 wannabe. The interior is really what did it in for me, and I sold it after only like a year and got into two Coyote Mustangs after that. I was pretty dead set on a 2016 Mustang, but I said let me wait and see what GM does to the new Camaro. I liked it right away, it was like they took the fifth gen, and sent it to a finishing school ran by Black Sabbath. It just has a much more aggressive, hunkered down look. I still am not totally sold on the back, but with the blade spoiler and quad tip exhaust, it is growing on me a lot too. And, of course the performance gains were more than I think anyone imagined.

Yes, they raised the prices, but for what they did, and what you get it is still a performance bargin. Some will shy away due to costs, but that doesn't bother me. I actually like the fact they don't sell like crazy. I see new Mustangs everywhere, and living in Florida Mustang rentals are like all over the place. I really thought about a GT350 regardless, but the extra cost doesn't justify the slight performance gains, and the SS 1LE may match it anyway.

All the bickering over sales between Camaro and Mustang people is comical and annoying. The only thing the Mustang folks have is a sales advantage, who really brags about that? In most cases the better, more expensive item will sell less than the cheaper more ho humm item anyway. But who cares, buy what you like...and be GLAD we have three American muscle cars like this to choose from. It won't last forever with all the forthcoming EPA and CAFE crap. V8's and larger will become very rare and expensive commodities on new cars down the road I think...

Great points.

[Realist]

Im a lifelong Camaro guy too. 2-69's, 3-3rd gens, 1-4th gen and 1-5th gen just returned after lease completion. I'm not going to say the 6th gen hasn't had improvements for the better because it has. The car is smaller, lighter, handles and performs better. The new tech is great too. However, similar to the 5th gen, the front and rear could use some redesigns, when is that slated for? As far as the interior, Yes I see an improvement, just not that impressed. Very similar plastic and materials to the 5th gen but improved, the design and layout is better but the Nav/radio is still flat mounted and not turned towards the driver to enhance the cockpit feel. Replace the 6sp shift knob. I like the dash gauges but with HUD, I don't use them much anyways. The stock wing spoiler isn't helping. I wasn't a big fan of the 5th gen at first, the 1LE package fixed the short comings on the 5th gen and it appears to do the same in the 6th Gen for me.

Maybe at $30k max, people feel they are getting a better looking car and deal with its competitors and the real reason for the lower sales counts.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by Number 3

So most people seem to be agreeing GM is taking the Camaro up in price for a "total profit" strategy and is willing to sell fewer cars in this scenario.

My question is wouldn't you still want to sell more than you projected? Wouldn't a 10 day supply of cars be better than 40 or 50? Wouldn't you then be making even MOHR profit? Of course the answer is yes.

Now let me ask everyone that bought your 16 or 17 and absolutely love it. Would you love it less if the belt line were 1/2 lower and the roof an inch higher? Would you love it less if the trunk was bigger making the car a little longer and yes, a bit heavier too? My point all along is GM could have made a car that you guys wouldn't love one bit less than you do, but have satisfied the people that wanted a great sport coupe not just a BA Camaro. Could have been both with the same invested capital.

Problem is that car would have admittedly been 50 pounds heavier and this website alone would be full of people screaming that GM had FAILED because weighed slightly more than the Mustang instead of slightly less. And this would be regardless of the fact that those changes would have had minimal impact on the performance advantage the car has.

That isn't to say that the price point isn't part of why it isn't selling as well as Gen5 or Mustang and over the last couple of months Challenger. But I'm pretty sure there would have been at least 1 more Camaro sold if it had addressed those concerns.

I think some of the design changes would have appealed to some but not have appealed to others and probably wash each other out. For example, if you lower the belt line and raise the roof then you lose that unique chopped top look to slightly improve visibility. It is hard to market a car based on how good it's visibility is. I have a family minivan as well with more glass in it than greenhouse and I have no problems with visibility when I go from the minivan to driving the Camaro. Sure it's worse but it is not like I am driving blindfolded.

This is just me, but I am not sure why anyone who values practicality even considers a 2 door sports coupe. To me, the whole point of a car like this is for it to be more special than a typical sedan. If I wanted a practical sedan there are so many options out there from Camrys to Maximas or even Infiniti Q50s or Lexus GS350s if you want more luxury. I have owned all those and they get boring in about 6 months whereas the driving experience of the Camaro continues to put a smile on my face each time I drive it.

[97one]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

I think some of the design changes would have appealed to some but not have appealed to others and probably wash each other out. For example, if you lower the belt line and raise the roof then you lose that unique chopped top look to slightly improve visibility. It is hard to market a car based on how good it's visibility is. I have a family minivan as well with more glass in it than greenhouse and I have no problems with visibility when I go from the minivan to driving the Camaro. Sure it's worse but it is not like I am driving blindfolded.

This is just me, but I am not sure why anyone who values practicality even considers a 2 door sports coupe. To me, the whole point of a car like this is for it to be more special than a typical sedan. If I wanted a practical sedan there are so many options out there from Camrys to Maximas or even Infiniti Q50s or Lexus GS350s if you want more luxury. I have owned all those and they get boring in about 6 months whereas the driving experience of the Camaro continues to put a smile on my face each time I drive it.

[DenverTaco07]

The Camaro has been cancelled.

[Richard0nee]

Originally Posted by Realist

Im a lifelong Camaro guy too. 2-69's, 3-3rd gens, 1-4th gen and 1-5th gen just returned after lease completion. I'm not going to say the 6th gen hasn't had improvements for the better because it has. The car is smaller, lighter, handles and performs better. The new tech is great too. However, similar to the 5th gen, the front and rear could use some redesigns, when is that slated for? As far as the interior, Yes I see an improvement, just not that impressed. Very similar plastic and materials to the 5th gen but improved, the design and layout is better but the Nav/radio is still flat mounted and not turned towards the driver to enhance the cockpit feel. Replace the 6sp shift knob. I like the dash gauges but with HUD, I don't use them much anyways. The stock wing spoiler isn't helping. I wasn't a big fan of the 5th gen at first, the 1LE package fixed the short comings on the 5th gen and it appears to do the same in the 6th Gen for me.


Maybe at $30k max, people feel they are getting a better looking car and deal with its competitors and the real reason for the lower sales counts.

Are you kidding me? Look at the bumper, fascia, the headlights, the whole interior has change.. Do you want a completely different looking car? Perhaps the interior of an BMW M4 on the new 6th Gen will satisfy you?

Some of you guys are total delusional. There is a change and if you can't see the dif, I don't know what to tell you.

[Realist]

Originally Posted by Richard0nee

Are you kidding me? Look at the bumper, fascia, the headlights, the whole interior has change.. Do you want a completely different looking car? Perhaps the interior of an BMW M4 on the new 6th Gen will satisfy you?

Some of you guys are total delusional. There is a change and if you can't see the dif, I don't know what to tell you.

Yes some of you guys are delusional. I mention the changes and my opinion is they aren't that impressive or to my liking. Change doesn't always mean better. I see the pictures you proved with my eyes and don't see the hugh differences you see. Never looked at an M4. Some of you need to stop getting your panties all bunched up when people offer an opinion that is different then yours on this current 6 gen offering.

[Posaune]

Anyone else seen this yet?

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

I am not saying it doesn't compete with the Ford or Dodge, however I don't think that is its only competition anymore. I haven't seen any video reviews where they put a Ford Mustang or Dodge Challenger up against the likes of a BMW M4.

Motortrend video Camaro SS vs. BMW M4

https://youtu.be/D87tO7VUs2I

See below

Originally Posted by GossipSquirrelJelena

Old news. Motor trend has been comparing American pony cars to M cars for years. I doubt you'll find these videos as sexy..

Originally Posted by raptor5244

I think some of the design changes would have appealed to some but not have appealed to others and probably wash each other out. For example, if you lower the belt line and raise the roof then you lose that unique chopped top look to slightly improve visibility. It is hard to market a car based on how good it's visibility is. I have a family minivan as well with more glass in it than greenhouse and I have no problems with visibility when I go from the minivan to driving the Camaro. Sure it's worse but it is not like I am driving blindfolded.

This is just me, but I am not sure why anyone who values practicality even considers a 2 door sports coupe. To me, the whole point of a car like this is for it to be more special than a typical sedan. If I wanted a practical sedan there are so many options out there from Camrys to Maximas or even Infiniti Q50s or Lexus GS350s if you want more luxury. I have owned all those and they get boring in about 6 months whereas the driving experience of the Camaro continues to put a smile on my face each time I drive it.

What Number3 said is all things that would have made it a better coupe. He is basically just saying the went for form over function just a bit to much.

[Richard0nee]

Originally Posted by Realist

Yes some of you guys are delusional. I mention the changes and my opinion is they aren't that impressive or to my liking. Change doesn't always mean better. I see the pictures you proved with my eyes and don't see the hugh differences you see. Never looked at an M4. Some of you need to stop getting your panties all bunched up when people offer an opinion that is different then yours on this current 6 gen offering.

Hilarious! lol My point is, if you're not impress with the new interior change, I think you really want it to look like an upscale luxury car or some sort. It changed a lot and I'm not sure what will impress you!

As I have always said though, looks is def. subjective and if you feel that the changes to the 6th Gen wasn't enough, I respect that.

[Doc]

Chevy has managed to put themselves in a bind with this car. The performance team wanted it to perform like a $66K+ car and they nailed it. It is now without question, a high-performance sports GT. The style team however, wasn't willing to stray too far from the 5th gen and that's where the bind is. The price reflects what the performance team created, but that's not something you see when you look at the car.

If they want to move the Camaro upscale to compete with something like a BMW, they're going to have to upscale the looks. It's nice as it is, but nice isn't enough. Even though it performs like a $66k+ car, it doesn't look like one...it just doesn't. Regardless of what the apologists want to say, the looks don't match the public's perception of what a car in that performance category should look like, and that's the bind Chevy is in.

I'm sorry to have to say, that regardless of what it costs, they have to completely redesign the body and interior IF they want it to truly move upscale. Where it sits right now, it has completely lost the blue-collar impulse buyer, which is why there's such a backlog of inventory. Buyers are looking at what clearly looks like a slightly upgraded 5th gen Camaro, and then they look at the sticker price and go....nope.

Now if it looked like something that should have McLaren or Aston Martin on the side, then that would be a different story. Once you hit a certain price point, and the Camaro has clearly reached that point, looks and style become dramatically more important than just performance. I think the Camaro team focused on catering to the 20% of the customer base who wanted performance, and they nailed it. And that's where the bulk of the sales have been. But it doesn't appear they've pulled anybody from the higher levels of affluence who are the BMW sports GT customers. So they're somewhat stuck. Too expensive for the 80%, not stylish enough for the upper affluent types, already sold to the loyal 20%. Where do they go from here?

My recommendation would be to either come out with a much more affordable base model, or go all-in on upscale and redesign the body and interior to match what the performance team has (and is) delivering. Although unfortunately, I don't think that even with an upscale look, they'll get the blue-collar worker back. It's already out of their price range and market segment. If leaving them behind is their plan, well okay but get serious about being truly upscale, and that absolutely includes looks. If you want to appeal to the supercar segment, it better look like it or they won't even give it a second look.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. They need a revived pony car, like the original Camaro. The 80% of the market they're leaving behind might not be the most affluent, but they buy a LOT of cars and there's a lot to be said for marketing and street presence. Street reputation among that crowd counts for a lot when it comes to buying decisions. The words "too expensive" are a sales-killer, and unfortunately that appears to be where the 6th gen is sitting right now.

[Lafourche1]

Originally Posted by Richard0nee

Hilarious! lol My point is, if you're not impress with the new interior change, I think you really want it to look like an upscale luxury car or some sort. It changed a lot and I'm not sure what will impress you!

As I have always said though, looks is def. subjective and if you feel that the changes to the 6th Gen wasn't enough, I respect that.

Truly the interior compares very well. I invite people to shop the BMW M440i and the S5. I would welcome the comments on the $55K-$60K price tags, lack of performance, small back seats and other short comings that shouldn't exist in ~$60K vehicles.

I've owned BMWs, Audis and Jaguars for over 30 years (other makes thrown in, too). I have yet to own a perfect car. OK - The Ridgeline comes pretty close, but then again the gas mileage sucks.