[Hops]

Originally Posted by ItsChristianInHD

Yep!

Here’s the new report.
https://gmauthority.com/blog/2022/12...ibu-exclusive/

2019 report that the car would sunset.
https://gmauthority.com/blog/2019/07...o-die-in-2024/

wow, the Malibu continues to another generation on VSS-F. I had no idea! Can someone please make a rumor about a 7th gen Camaro on VSS-R .... no really i need to order a 2023!

[2cnd chance]

With some tweaks I can see a future Camaro here. Maybe a future all electric Camaro??

[jamala00]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

With some tweaks I can see a future Camaro here. Maybe a future all electric Camaro??

Hmmm Not bad!

[LateBrakeU2]

Take what you will from this, but clearly GM is focused on other things than Camaro at this point. https://racer.com/2023/01/05/andrett...l-pu-supplier/

[TP2SS]

Originally Posted by LeonardS

When you look at prior Camaro performance cars, the convertibles don’t bring more money.

I've been watching Mecum Kissimmee this week and so far no great apples to apples comparison, but The Professor has noted many times that verts are more valuable (in a general sense when talking about some cars coming across the block, not specifically a Camaro). When it's all over I'll see if I can find two similar Camaros, vert and coupe, and compare the hammer prices.

Yesterday a 69 RS/SS coupe hammered for $180k+, but it was a very rare and pristine big block car, and a real-deal RS/SS. Last month at Mecum (forget which city) a 67 vert pace car (the actual car that paced the race) sold for $350k+, but that was the actual pace car, so not a good comp.

There was a great apples to apples comp Friday when a 66 K-code Mustang coupe sold for much less than a 66 plain-jane vert that had a 289 2bbl. Both were restored to OEM so very similar in all ways except body style. Kraman actually made a comment on the K-code car that "it wasn't a convertible or fastback, which are more desirable" when it was going across the block.

Apples to apples, a vert is going to bring more money.

As an aside, an Arctic Blue ZL1 coupe brought $82k yesterday, and that's a super rare color.

[LeonardS]

I believe the highest price so far is a 69 COPO ZL-1 that sold at Barrett Jackson for over $1 million. It was a coupe, but I don’t think there were any COPO convertible’s, so nothing to compare to. It still far exceeds the convertible examples from Mecum. I won’t be a buyer for any of the above cars

[TP2SS]

Originally Posted by LeonardS

I believe the highest price so far is a 69 COPO ZL-1 that sold at Barrett Jackson for over $1 million. It was a coupe, but I don’t think there were any COPO convertible’s, so nothing to compare to. It still far exceeds the convertible examples from Mecum. I won’t be a buyer for any of the above cars

Yep, that's correct. Car #59 I believe. Sold for $1.05MM or so. Yes, no '69 ZL1's made, but if there were it would surely far exceed that sale (assuming it was in the same condition). Hemi Cuda convertibles are the highest value musclecars right now, a few selling for $2-3MM in the last couple years. Hemi Cuda coupes sell for far less.

[Need4Camaro]

Im just not ready for an all electric car, and it definitely won't be replacing my 6th Gen if I ever buy one. I recently purchased a 2020 Toyota Camry Hybrid to replace my Prius (and love it) but for now thats as far as I want to go. I drove my Camry from Austin TX to Atlanta GA and again from Atlanta GA to Boston MA and all the way back to Austin TX (via Atlanta) and I cant count how many hours I would have lost had I chosen to taken that drive in an EV. I spoke to a owner of a Tesla 3 who did my dashcam install and he confirmed what I originally believed. They are fine as commuter cars but they're not ready for longer drives that exceed their range.

Another thing is, how fast current technology is being pushed despite us being nowhere near the pennacle of battery technology. Will current charging infrastructure be able to supply Solid State Batteries (when they come out) a full charge in the relatively short time they are capable of charging? If not, then wouldnt deploying millions of charging stations across the U.S. just be a waste of money? What are we going to do with all of these lithium batteries that will be considered dinosaurs in compared to new batteries in less than a decade when people start moving up to the latest and greatest? What about all these customers paying $60k + for a car that takes 20 minutes to charge, when a new model comes out with better battery technology? Manufacturers should atleast offer a plan (which you pay) to keep your car with the most up to date battery tech (capacity and recharge times).

This just, isnt being very thought out in my opinion and is being rushed on the masses. We arent being THAT much more friendly to the environment either. Im just going to drive my SS till it gas reaches $15 gallon

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

Im just not ready for an all electric car, and it definitely won't be replacing my 6th Gen if I ever buy one. I recently purchased a 2020 Toyota Camry Hybrid to replace my Prius (and love it) but for now thats as far as I want to go. I drove my Camry from Austin TX to Atlanta GA and again from Atlanta GA to Boston MA and all the way back to Austin TX (via Atlanta) and I cant count how many hours I would have lost had I chosen to taken that drive in an EV. I spoke to a owner of a Tesla 3 who did my dashcam install and he confirmed what I originally believed. They are fine as commuter cars but they're not ready for longer drives that exceed their range.

Another thing is, how fast current technology is being pushed despite us being nowhere near the pennacle of battery technology. Will current charging infrastructure be able to supply Solid State Batteries (when they come out) a full charge in the relatively short time they are capable of charging? If not, then wouldnt deploying millions of charging stations across the U.S. just be a waste of money? What are we going to do with all of these lithium batteries that will be considered dinosaurs in compared to new batteries in less than a decade when people start moving up to the latest and greatest? What about all these customers paying $60k + for a car that takes 20 minutes to charge, when a new model comes out with better battery technology? Manufacturers should atleast offer a plan (which you pay) to keep your car with the most up to date battery tech (capacity and recharge times).

This just, isnt being very thought out in my opinion and is being rushed on the masses. We arent being THAT much more friendly to the environment either. Im just going to drive my SS till it gas reaches $15 gallon

Just speaking to the part in bold.

Solid State will be able to charge at the same chargers that charge today's Li-ion batteries. Solid State refers to the anode and cathode materials being solid instead of a semi-liquid suspension. Primary benefit being that you can charge them faster more safely than substrate configurations. There are already today many versions of Li-ion batteries with most of the differentiation being anode / cathode chemistry, but they all charge at the same chargers.

As far as "current charging infrastructure" is concerned, that's a red herring. By the time solid state batteries are commercially available, the infrastructure will be very different than it is today. That is the whole point of the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law passed by Congress in 2022. It provides money to each state to be apportioned by each state to improve EV charging infrastructure (and fix bridges and other infrastructure needs). By the time solid state batteries are available and affordable, much of the infrastructure covered by this bill will be installed and in use.

As far as what to do with expired EV batteries, there are a couple issues at play here.

First, hybrid and EV batteries are required to be covered by warranty for at least 8 years, 100,000 miles. Some automakers extend that to 10 years 100,000 miles. So rest assured automakers are developing them to last much longer than that.

Second, when a battery is considered no longer adequate for automotive duty, it is still well suited for other uses. In automotive use, the batteries are constantly charging and depleting over multiple cycles in short time windows. Batteries that can no longer do that are still capable of charging, storing energy, and releasing the energy in slower, steadier pulls. This makes them excellent candidates for storing power generated during off-peak hours for reuse to supplement power demand during peak loads. Power stations have plans to use repurposed EV batteries for just that use case. Likewise, solar farms and wind farms can use repurposed EV batteries in the same way.

Third, there are already industries growing that remanufacture hybrid and EV batteries for lower cost post warranty (customer pay) replacements of EV batteries. Here is just one example... https://www.greentecauto.com/product-tag/chevy-volt
I could replace the entire battery in my wife's Chevy Volt for about the same cost to install a Maggie in my Camaro. No doubt the Maggie would be a lot more fun, but the remanufactured Volt battery comes with a warranty.

There are also recycling companies that specialize in Li-ion batteries. They are able to separate the various minerals and metals for re-introduction into the supply chain, reducing (not eliminating) the need for mining of new minerals and metals. Here is just one example... https://nextenergy.org/work/ev-batte...g-and-2nd-use/

Each manufacturer is taking a different approach to their battery development and manufacture, just like with engines and transmissions. One of the more interesting ones is GM's Ultium technology. GM, in partnership with LG Chem, have developed the batteries in a manner that if there is a failure, they can identify the specific failed module and replace just that module instead of the whole battery. They also design the batteries to be backward compatible, so for example plugging a 2029 battery into a 2024 vehicle will be a non-issue. When the replacement module is plugged into the Ultium battery pack, the new module can communicate with the battery controller and be instantly integrated into the pack. I expect other automakers will adopt a similar approach.

[Capricio]

What, if anything, does the extension of 2023 production into August tell us about the viability of a 2024 production year?

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2022/11...ilt-exclusive/

Typically model year production begins in June of the previous year. What is the strategy/necessity/implication of extending 2023 into August?

[1fastz28]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Just speaking to the part in bold.

Solid State will be able to charge at the same chargers that charge today's Li-ion batteries. Solid State refers to the anode and cathode materials being solid instead of a semi-liquid suspension. Primary benefit being that you can charge them faster more safely than substrate configurations. There are already today many versions of Li-ion batteries with most of the differentiation being anode / cathode chemistry, but they all charge at the same chargers.

As far as "current charging infrastructure" is concerned, that's a red herring. By the time solid state batteries are commercially available, the infrastructure will be very different than it is today. That is the whole point of the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law passed by Congress in 2022. It provides money to each state to be apportioned by each state to improve EV charging infrastructure (and fix bridges and other infrastructure needs). By the time solid state batteries are available and affordable, much of the infrastructure covered by this bill will be installed and in use.

As far as what to do with expired EV batteries, there are a couple issues at play here.

First, hybrid and EV batteries are required to be covered by warranty for at least 8 years, 100,000 miles. Some automakers extend that to 10 years 100,000 miles. So rest assured automakers are developing them to last much longer than that.

Second, when a battery is considered no longer adequate for automotive duty, it is still well suited for other uses. In automotive use, the batteries are constantly charging and depleting over multiple cycles in short time windows. Batteries that can no longer do that are still capable of charging, storing energy, and releasing the energy in slower, steadier pulls. This makes them excellent candidates for storing power generated during off-peak hours for reuse to supplement power demand during peak loads. Power stations have plans to use repurposed EV batteries for just that use case. Likewise, solar farms and wind farms can use repurposed EV batteries in the same way.

Third, there are already industries growing that remanufacture hybrid and EV batteries for lower cost post warranty (customer pay) replacements of EV batteries. Here is just one example... https://www.greentecauto.com/product-tag/chevy-volt
I could replace the entire battery in my wife's Chevy Volt for about the same cost to install a Maggie in my Camaro. No doubt the Maggie would be a lot more fun, but the remanufactured Volt battery comes with a warranty.

There are also recycling companies that specialize in Li-ion batteries. They are able to separate the various minerals and metals for re-introduction into the supply chain, reducing (not eliminating) the need for mining of new minerals and metals. Here is just one example... https://nextenergy.org/work/ev-batte...g-and-2nd-use/

Each manufacturer is taking a different approach to their battery development and manufacture, just like with engines and transmissions. One of the more interesting ones is GM's Ultium technology. GM, in partnership with LG Chem, have developed the batteries in a manner that if there is a failure, they can identify the specific failed module and replace just that module instead of the whole battery. They also design the batteries to be backward compatible, so for example plugging a 2029 battery into a 2024 vehicle will be a non-issue. When the replacement module is plugged into the Ultium battery pack, the new module can communicate with the battery controller and be instantly integrated into the pack. I expect other automakers will adopt a similar approach.

My buddy here in Houston area did just this was old Nissan Leaf batteries. He bought a bunch of them from wrecked/salvage cars and built his own battery backup for the house. He charges them via solar panels on his roof and stores the energy in the batteries. He can run his house for 7 full days with A/C running and everything. He also has a Volt and a Tesla that he can charge for free. It is a big investment but it pays for itself over time.

[bdavies11]

Originally Posted by 1fastz28

My buddy here in Houston area did just this was old Nissan Leaf batteries. He bought a bunch of them from wrecked/salvage cars and built his own battery backup for the house. He charges them via solar panels on his roof and stores the energy in the batteries. He can run his house for 7 full days with A/C running and everything. He also has a Volt and a Tesla that he can charge for free. It is a big investment but it pays for itself over time.

Until he needs a new roof. Nobody tells you this up front but the cost to remove and re assemble the panels is extremely high and any savings made over those years is out the the window when its time for a new roof. I know a few home owners and my place of work that didn't put their panels back up after needing a new roof because it wound up not being worth it in the end.

[GearheadSS]

This is me whenever I see he has a new video with Camaro "news".

[Need4Camaro]

I still think manufacturers should offer a better way to increase your current vehicle's battery capabilities when newer battery tech comes out instead of completely replacing the car given how fast battery technology is improving. Some sort of package or subscription that you pay for that enables your battery to be swapped out to newer and more capable batteries when they arrive on the market.