[Crim]

Originally Posted by Alain

I am not assuming. I own both cars. I know what they can do from a roll.

If Both cars are stock, hellcat takes the cake. Of course that’s assuming both of the drivers get even jumps.

Watching these videos and having an acurate opinion is hard to do. You don’t know anything about the cars or how hard the drivers are pushing them.

With that being said......... Take it from me, an automatic Hellcat will walk away from a zl1 !

If a Hellcat walks away,,, what does assuming both drivers get an even jump have to do with anything? I'll answer that one... because the jump has everything to do with it as they are so close. There is no walk, especially with the A10. Your 1LE is not going to hang quite as well with the M6 but the Hennessey's video proves just how close these cars actually are. Walk would be a stretch.

[Alain]

Originally Posted by Ten4Lou

Not too sure about that. Especially “walk away”??. I raced a Hellcat with my 2014 Camaro SS. My SS was a 6 spd manual and he was auto. We raced from a red light first and he beat me but it was very minimal. I’d say he was only about 1/2 of a car ahead of me by 80 mph. Then he tried to race me again from about a 45 mph roll with almost the same results except he was about 3/4 of a car ahead this time. Now I have a 2018 ZL1 A10. Wow!!! This Z is WAY WAY faster than my SS was. No competition at all!! It seems my new Z pulls way harder than I perceived in that Hellcat.

Hellcat and Z are both awesome cars and I would have to agree with others that it is very close between them, but with the edge being given to the Z... especially from a dig.

I’ve heard it said before, the Z is much faster than it FEELS. Hellcat feels like it’s more powerful, but it’s comparable to how having louder exhaust makes your car “feel” faster. The ZL1 has a way of concealing the acceleration by the design of the exhaust, suspension and seats. The only gauge is how it pins you in the seat!!! Good job Chevy engineers!!

ZL1 is precision design. It’s not some raw power vessel that tosses you around like an old dragster... it’s more like a cockpit that’s been custom tailored to the driver!!

I shouldn’t have used the term “walk away”. Classic example of bad choice of words. I should have just said “Hellcat is faster”. I agree with you. Zl1 is much more refined than the Hellcat making it desceptively fast.
From a dig the zl1 will probably win because of the traction advantage. This discussion is in reference to the video which is from a roll.

Originally Posted by Can'tHave2MuchHP

All do respect, the numbers do not lie.

You own the slowest iteration of the ZL1 and the fastest iteration of the Hellcat. (In straight line speed comparison).

The A10 ZL1 out 0-60s, out 1/4 miles, out 1/2 miles and out top speeds the Challenger Hellcat in all magazine and factory tests. There are more owners in the 10s with stock hellcats on DRs than stock ZL1s, yes. The TM is pretty limiting on the ZL1. Once the TM is out of play (above 40-50 MPH) whichever one gets the jump, wins.

Also, I've driven a LOT of cars including a Challenger Hellcat. They "Feel" WAYYY more insane than they actually are. The 275 rear tire, very un-intrusive traction management and stability control, and the size of the car = a very "insane" feeling and somewhat scarier acceleration. The ZL1 on the other hand is smooth, little drama, and clean. It feels like a less powerful, more consistent pull. Whereas the Hellcat feels like a violent shove in the back.

Neither car blows the door off or "walks" away from the other. Now if you have an ZLE vs A8 Hellcat then of course it will go Hellcat as M6 + the drag just can't compete. Difference is the ZLE can take the turn at the end of the drag strip at it's trap speed and the Hellcat can't, LOL.

Hahahaha. I like the last sentence there. You make a great point about the way both cars utilize and disguise the power. I will agree with you that all the dramatics of the Hellcat make it feel like you’re riding a rocket, the Zl1 never feels that way because it’s so controlled....... by the way that is exactly the reason why both cars can’t be completed.

I still believe that an automatic Hellcat vs. a stock Zl1 will be faster from a roll, especially a manual Zl1. Both of mine are manuals so my experience is limited with automatic Hellcats. But an automatic Hellcat is obviously going to be faster than mine.

I hadn’t considered the drag factor on my Zl1 1LE. That may be the reason why the Hellcat as been faster when matching both of my cars against each other.

Originally Posted by Crim

If a Hellcat walks away,,, what does assuming both drivers get an even jump have to do with anything? I'll answer that one... because the jump has everything to do with it as they are so close. There is no walk, especially with the A10. Your 1LE is not going to hang quite as well with the M6 but the Hennessey's video proves just how close these cars actually are. Walk would be a stretch.

Again, I’ll take back the “walk away” comment.

I’ll leave it at “Hellcat is faster”.

[96MrBass]

Originally Posted by Alain

thank you for clarifying my statement. I didn't present it clearly enough.

Hellcat engines have always been in the realm of 750-760 horsepower. Dodge advertised them with lower horsepower in a clever move. Three years later they can announce a bump in horsepower without having to do anything to the engine.

The Redeye is something different. That's a Demon motor with a conservative tune. That thing will definitely take the ZL1 to school, I think.

Luckily for those of us that bought the earlier hellcats, we just need to spend $2500-$3000 and we are making a reliable 800+ horses to the wheel. Those hemi motors are truly amazing.

It's cool that fca underrates their hp numbers but wouldn't this also mean that a ZL1 is doing more with WAY less no?

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by 96MrBass

It's cool that fca underrates their hp numbers but wouldn't this also mean that a ZL1 is doing more with WAY less no?

Fake news about the Hellcat being underrated. Thank hack car magazines like Motor Trend for spouting this cap. Their motors are SAE certified with two different numbers. The advertised 707hp@6000RPM and 714HP@ 6200RPM. The test was run on 4-28-2014.

There is no mathematical way of backwards rating a motor based on chassis dyno numbers. It's all guess.

[96MrBass]

Been hearing the underatted thing since the first hellcat was released and hit a dyno.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by 96MrBass

Been hearing the underatted thing since the first hellcat was released and hit a dyno.

I hear and read a lot of different everyday.

[lt4camaro]

Originally Posted by motorhead

Fake news about the Hellcat being underrated. Thank hack car magazines like Motor Trend for spouting this cap. Their motors are SAE certified with two different numbers. The advertised 707hp@6000RPM and 714HP@ 6200RPM. The test was run on 4-28-2014.

There is no mathematical way of backwards rating a motor based on chassis dyno numbers. It's all guess.

Thats pure bull, there have been so many stock hellcats on a chassis dyno and they all put down more rear wheel horse than they should be. You can come very close when you take many, many samplings of dyno #s for the stock hellcat and do the math. Everyone higher than the approx 615 realistic rear wheel horse to represent 707 flywheel horsepower. The 1/4 trap speed of many stock hellcats also indicate more than 707 horse in a 44 - 4500 lb car. The 707 hp is truly underated. Gm is the only manufacturer that footnotes there HP ratings with the SAE certified notation.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by lt4camaro

Thats pure bull, there have been so many stock hellcats on a chassis dyno and they all put down more rear wheel horse than they should be. You can come very close when you take many, many samplings of dyno #s for the stock hellcat and do the math. Everyone higher than the approx 615 realistic rear wheel horse to represent 707 flywheel horsepower. The 1/4 trap speed of many stock hellcats also indicate more than 707 horse in a 44 - 4500 lb car. The 707 hp is truly underated. Gm is the only manufacturer that footnotes there HP ratings with the SAE certified notation.

It's not bull. It's s fact that those motors were SAE certified. Sorry your fuzzy math doesn't add up.

It's not hard to find the certification. I had it posted and deleted it because I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post it as there is a charge to purchase them.

[Blackdevil77]

Originally Posted by motorhead

It's not bull. It's s fact that those motors were SAE certified. Sorry your fuzzy math doesn't add up.

It's not hard to find the certification. I had it posted and deleted it because I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post it as there is a charge to purchase them.

I have to second the bull notion. Something is definitely fishy. A stock, 707 horsepower Hellcat dynos around the same, if not a tiny bit more than what we've been seeing the new LT5 ZR1's dynoing at, which are rated at 755 hp. How do you explain that? I find it hard to believe there is that much less parasitic loss on the Hellcats than there are the new ZR1's. Especially since one of the numbers I'm referencing is a manual ZR1.

[Can'tHave2MuchHP]

Originally Posted by motorhead

It's not bull. It's s fact that those motors were SAE certified. Sorry your fuzzy math doesn't add up.

It's not hard to find the certification. I had it posted and deleted it because I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post it as there is a charge to purchase them.

FWIW, I've got a buddy deep up into the Dodge rungs and he says the Hellcat engine is a 740+ HP engine...Also rumored the "717" HP Hellcats are identical.

Worth noting that true 707 BHP - 20% for Autos should result in 565 RWHP. I'd guess the average Hellcat stock dyno is 620-640 RWHP, and I've seen some as high as 670-680 RWHP. Bolt on levels for the LT4.

For a true 707 BHP engine to put down 620-640 RWHP, it would need to make 770-800 HP. So either Dodge has figured out the most efficient drivetrain ever made. Or it's underrated...aaaaand I'm going to go ahead and agree with SRT guys, stock dyno numbers from hellcat.org, and what I've seen - the engine is underrated.

[SecondZ28]

https://www.hellcat.org/threads/hell...s.10464/page-2

[Alain]

Originally Posted by motorhead

Fake news about the Hellcat being underrated. Thank hack car magazines like Motor Trend for spouting this cap. Their motors are SAE certified with two different numbers. The advertised 707hp@6000RPM and 714HP@ 6200RPM. The test was run on 4-28-2014.

There is no mathematical way of backwards rating a motor based on chassis dyno numbers. It's all guess.

I think you are wong. Stock hellcats have pumped out more than the 707 hp In spite of this test you are referring to. I’m not an industry insider so I don’t know how but somehow for some reason Dodge underrated the original Hellcat. Maybe they were trying to get around some sort of EPA regulation or they were lookin ahead to the future and somehow underrating it was an advantage. It’s easy and cheap to announce two upgrades in horsepower in two different model years when the motor is already making that horsepower.

Originally Posted by lt4camaro

Thats pure bull, there have been so many stock hellcats on a chassis dyno and they all put down more rear wheel horse than they should be. You can come very close when you take many, many samplings of dyno #s for the stock hellcat and do the math. Everyone higher than the approx 615 realistic rear wheel horse to represent 707 flywheel horsepower. The 1/4 trap speed of many stock hellcats also indicate more than 707 horse in a 44 - 4500 lb car. The 707 hp is truly underated. Gm is the only manufacturer that footnotes there HP ratings with the SAE certified notation.

I agree with this. I’ve seen visual evidence of this. I don’t know how else someone can explain a stock hellcat putting out that much horsepower.

[SecondZ28]

Originally Posted by Can'tHave2MuchHP

FWIW, I've got a buddy deep up into the Dodge rungs and he says the Hellcat engine is a 740 HP engine...Also rumored the "717" HP Hellcats are identical.

Yea they're are trying to hype up the hood nostrils for the "extra" 10hp

Just like the RedEye 797 rating is actually the same motor as the 808 Demon, they just don't want to alienate the Demon

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by Can'tHave2MuchHP

FWIW, I've got a buddy deep up into the Dodge rungs and he says the Hellcat engine is a 740 HP engine...Also rumored the "717" HP Hellcats are identical.

Yeah, I got buddies in high places too that think they know something.


Good one.

So, I guess from what all you folks are saying about this motor having hidden power is that SAE is no longer a third party organization that has any meaning or value whatsoever?

How we know the HP numbers on any car are real then? Guess we have to believe the chassis dyno and all the backwards math wizards we have running around.

This reminds me of guys in my field thinking that HVAC systems can be sized accurately based on square footage alone. Whatever bs quick calculation they think works doesn't much of the time.