[titanfan]

Originally Posted by Jeffro19

Like the old saying goes gotta pay to play. The next Z28 will be much more attainable for most people.

How? So you think a new z/28 will be as fast or faster than the 5thGen version but GM will be able to do it cheaper?

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by Capricio

Agreed, but as Z28 gets scaled down, what's going to be the big differentiator from 1LE to Z28? A different engine? Z28 was reduced down to little more than a badge in the past, and as a max effort racer more recently. So it can fall anywere in between for Gen6.

Without a more powerful engine, as a consumer I really don't see the point of a Z28 over a 1LE, and a different engine would likely move the price up well over 60k if it costs anything approaching what it takes to produce an LS7. WIthout a different engine and a resulting significant price increase, I don't really see enough space between them for both.

I can see the 1LE being like the GT350 and the Z/28 being like the GT350R, but with different engines.

[titanfan]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

I can see the 1LE being like the GT350 and the Z/28 being like the GT350R, but with different engines.

But the 1LE is just an option package for the SS, not a Camaro model. The GT350 is NOT a GT option package.

Obviously, a track intent z/28 would compete directly with the track intent GT350R; the highest tier for both models. But where, really, would a 1LE package fit in? As it stands right now, this is what you can currently get from Ford if you are looking at a Mustang:

Base w/ turbo four (EcoBoost)
Base w/ V6
GT 5.0L w/o Performance Package
GT 5.0L w/ Performance Package
GT350 5.2L Base
GT350 5.2L w/Track Package incl MRC
GT350R 5.2L w/Technology Package incl MRC
GT350R 5.2L w/Electronic Package incl MRC

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

I can see the 1LE being like the GT350 and the Z/28 being like the GT350R, but with different engines.

So... you're talking maybe like $50k-ish and $64k-ish? Or where would you envision these price points at? I hope 1LE isn't more than $4-5k over an SS.

[Jeffro19]

Originally Posted by Capricio

Agreed, but as Z28 gets scaled down, what's going to be the big differentiator from 1LE to Z28? A different engine? Z28 was reduced down to little more than a badge in the past, and as a max effort racer more recently. So it can fall anywere in between for Gen6.

Without a more powerful engine, as a consumer I really don't see the point of a Z28 over a 1LE, and a different engine would likely move the price up well over 60k if it costs anything approaching what it takes to produce an LS7. WIthout a different engine and a resulting significant price increase, I don't really see enough space between them for both.

I don't see GM making a new 1LE since the new SS will be faster around the track than the 15' 1LE. I'm thinking they will go with the Z28 and ZL1. The Z28 would compete with the GT350 and 350R

[Jeffro19]

Originally Posted by Capricio

So... you're talking maybe like $50k-ish and $64k-ish? Or where would you envision these price points at? I hope 1LE isn't more than $4-5k over an SS.

If GM comes out with the 1LE it would be at least 4k more than the SS

[Jeffro19]

Originally Posted by ztwentypoop

How? So you think a new z/28 will be as fast or faster than the 5thGen version but GM will be able to do it cheaper?

I didn't say it would be faster than the current Z28 just more affordable

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by ztwentypoop

How? So you think a new z/28 will be as fast or faster than the 5thGen version but GM will be able to do it cheaper?

It could be, not saying it will be, but it could be.

Take almost everything that they did on the 5th gen Z/28 and do the same things on the 6th, except for the engine. Replace the LS7 with a variant of the LT1 that makes another 20 hp (I'm thinking intake & exhaust tweaks) and you'll have similar power to weight ratios between the 5th gen Z/28 & this hypothetical 6th gen. The stiffer chassis & reduced weight will make the new car stop & turn even better, while keeping similar acceleration rates. As a result, the new car should be faster yet cost thousands less. It would be a fairly marginal improvement I'm sure, but it wouldn't be all that hard to accomplish.

Is that how GM will do a new Z/28? I doubt it. But I see no reason why they would be unable to do it.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by Capricio

So... you're talking maybe like $50k-ish and $64k-ish? Or where would you envision these price points at? I hope 1LE isn't more than $4-5k over an SS.

With the improved performance of the base SS, I feel like the 1LE can be improved even further. GM needs something around the capability of the GT350 and in the same price range. With the upgrades I posted earlier, it would be more expensive but it would perform better and GM needs that. If they build a Z/28 around the same price as the GT350R, it leaves a decent price gap for the LT4 ZL1.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Jeffro19

I don't see GM making a new 1LE since the new SS will be faster around the track than the 15' 1LE. I'm thinking they will go with the Z28 and ZL1. The Z28 would compete with the GT350 and 350R

It doesn't really matter how good the SS is, lots of people will still want something a bit better for not much money.

[titanfan]

Originally Posted by Jeffro19

I don't see GM making a new 1LE since the new SS will be faster around the track than the 15' 1LE. I'm thinking they will go with the Z28 and ZL1. The Z28 would compete with the GT350 and 350R

Let's be real, the SS that beats the Gen5 1LE equipped SS is the version with the optional MRC. No idea what the price increase for that option will be over the base SS, but it will likely be similar to what the 1LE option costs over the SS in the 5thGen. Essentially, the MRC option in the 6thGen is likely the equivalent of the 1LE option in the 5thGen.

Originally Posted by Jeffro19

I didn't say it would be faster than the current Z28 just more affordable

So the next z/28, in your opinion, would offer less performance than the previous generation and cost less. Didn't everyone villify Ford for offering a 6thGen Mustang with performance that was only equal to (or slightly less, depending on who you ask) than the previous generation? Why would we accept a z/28 with worse performance than its predecessor?

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by ztwentypoop

Essentially, the MRC option in the 6thGen is likely the equivalent of the 1LE option in the 5thGen.

If that were the case, just call the RPO code for MRC "1LE" and be done... but that isn't what they said. 1LE will be more or different if it is to exist. I'd like to beleive there will be a moderate step up in tires, brakes, aero, handling, and appearance bundled as 1LE.

Probably reading too much into too little info, but that's what forums are for!

[Jeb114]

3 statements here, 1 the LS7 was not the baddest GM engine ever build the 1970 LS6 454 CID NA, in the Chevelle was insurance rated at 450HP. But real world numbers put it at 575HP.

2. This HP upmanship has to end government regs and Cafe' will kill it. Just guessing 2018 is a big jump for Café'

3. Ford has twice the operating capital GM has an can take bigger risks. Ford has 2016 GT350/R. 2017 GT500. sell in limited numbers, 2018 break out the 600hp V6 emission compliant engine for future vehicles.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by Jeb114

3 statements here, 1 the LS7 was not the baddest GM engine ever build the 1970 LS6 454 CID NA, in the Chevelle was insurance rated at 450HP. But real world numbers put it at 575HP.

2. This HP upmanship has to end government regs and Cafe' will kill it. Just guessing 2018 is a big jump for Café'

3. Ford has twice the operating capital GM has an can take bigger risks. Ford has 2016 GT350/R. 2017 GT500. sell in limited numbers, 2018 break out the 600hp V6 emission compliant engine for future vehicles.

All engines back then were gross rated, meaning without the front drive, factory exhaust or intake. It was the optimal power the engine would make. They didn't make the same power in the car. I saw where an LS6 Chevelle was chassis dyno'd and it put down ~260 hp. Factoring in drive train losses, it was around 350 hp, nowhere near the 450+ claimed. Today's engine are SAE net, with the factory front drive, intake and exhausts system. They actually make that power in the car.