[RubyCamaro]

Originally Posted by Mikes SS

Hey Ruby, not bashing just not understanding...the new Malibu and especially the Impala are great cars and a diesel version of the Cruze is an awesome idea! I own a non diesel Cruze and they are a really great practical car for the money would have bought the diesel version if it were available because of the amount of driving I do 50 mpg's!!! What is the downside? The difference in the 4/V6/V8 debate for a muscle car is the sound, feel and function. If the new ecotec3 4.3L engine can do the job in a full size Silverado then so be it, I am very happy with direction that GM is going and I know that they know we love our V8's and they will be available as long we keep the powers that be aware that we are the consumers and they work for us we will be fine. (wow that last part could be said for politics too)

Okay let me explain how I feel. I was raised by a GM only father. I love GM generally speaking. I absolutely love my Camaro and my Sierra. I agree there are some really cool things about the new Impala. I'm not crazy about the look of it, but, meh, it's okay. I don't want a daily driver that big. Nor did I need to spend that much for a daily driver.


The Cruze was an okay car but I hated the way it shifted. It was a pain in the butt in bumper-to-bumper traffic surging in & out of gears like it could not decide which gear to be in. I was constantly worried I'd surge right into the rear end of another car no matter how carefully I drove. It had no power going up the huge hills I have to drive. I would not try to pass anyone in the Cruze, no confidence in it's ability to get up & go. So I think about a Malibu & see it has a 4 cyl engine & I'm thinking no way a bigger car with basicly the same engine. Not going to happen. No option for a 6 cyl? No option for a 2 door? Where have our choices gone in this country? Why are the shapes of hte Impala & Malibu so plain? I did not want to buy a Nissan but there was no GM car to fit the bill of what I wanted & needed. That made me sad.


And diesel? Maybe the new ones are different but, diesel stinks. I hear diesel and I think of the old saying that men are like bottle rockets but women are like diesel engines. I think of stinky old rough running trucks. That is just going to be a really tough sell with me. I don't want a car I don't understand anyway. I'm comfortable with what I know about gasoline engines & learning more. Heck, I don't want to start over. That about sums it up. I want choices back. I want sexy car designs even in my daily driver. I know the world is changing but I don't have to like it.

[Q'smuscle]

Originally Posted by NVmyZL1

Now that's some funny stuff right there! If I remember my automotive history correctly, the Camaro was GM's answer to the Mustang back in the '60's. Then, after GM saw the retro-themed Mustangs selling like hotcakes in the mid-to-late 2000's, they decided to get back into the game with a retro-themed 5th generation Camaro.

I'm not sure what they consider the definition of leading and/or following where you come from, but from where I am, it's pretty clear which model is following the other, historically speaking.

To your point though, we've already seen the Camaro die with "dignity" once in it's history, so I guess taking that path for a second time is probably par for the course for GM. Unfortunately, it will be the consumer, and more specifically the Camaro faithful that will suffer if that comes to pass.

And the winner is ??????? the Camaro

[Q'smuscle]

[QUOTE=Q'smuscle;7209664]And the winner is? ??????? The Camaro GM did the Retro - theme better. The mustang 2006 to 2009 look didn't have the ( WOW) factor like the camaro does and it got boring fast.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by RubyCamaro

Okay let me explain how I feel. I was raised by a GM only father. I love GM generally speaking. I absolutely love my Camaro and my Sierra. I agree there are some really cool things about the new Impala. I'm not crazy about the look of it, but, meh, it's okay. I don't want a daily driver that big. Nor did I need to spend that much for a daily driver.


The Cruze was an okay car but I hated the way it shifted. It was a pain in the butt in bumper-to-bumper traffic surging in & out of gears like it could not decide which gear to be in. I was constantly worried I'd surge right into the rear end of another car no matter how carefully I drove. It had no power going up the huge hills I have to drive. I would not try to pass anyone in the Cruze, no confidence in it's ability to get up & go. So I think about a Malibu & see it has a 4 cyl engine & I'm thinking no way a bigger car with basicly the same engine. Not going to happen. No option for a 6 cyl? No option for a 2 door? Where have our choices gone in this country? Why are the shapes of hte Impala & Malibu so plain? I did not want to buy a Nissan but there was no GM car to fit the bill of what I wanted & needed. That made me sad.


And diesel? Maybe the new ones are different but, diesel stinks. I hear diesel and I think of the old saying that men are like bottle rockets but women are like diesel engines. I think of stinky old rough running trucks. That is just going to be a really tough sell with me. I don't want a car I don't understand anyway. I'm comfortable with what I know about gasoline engines & learning more. Heck, I don't want to start over. That about sums it up. I want choices back. I want sexy car designs even in my daily driver. I know the world is changing but I don't have to like it.

Okay I'm sorry, but this post has so many things wrong with it, it's not even funny.

The Cruze has a 1.4L Turbocharged I-4. Sucks about your transmission issues but they've been fixed already.

Malibu has a 2.5L I-4. It's not the same 4-cylinder as Cruze. Nor is the uplevel engine, the 2.0L Turbocharged LTG I-4 which outperforms a ton of V6s from just a few years ago. Practically every media outlet that has test driven Malibu Turbo has concluded that it's more than an acceptable replacement for a V6.

Choices? We had a ton of choices in the past. Nobody picked them. That's why the midsize FWD coupe market is dead.

The name of the car is Cruze Clean Turbo Diesel for a reason. Diesel freaking rocks. Vastly superior fuel economy and more power. There's a reason diesel has become the new eco-trend. Look at Chrysler and their EcoDiesels.

This isn't your grandfather's crappy Oldsmobile diesel. This is an engine designed to deliver a better mix of performance and fuel economy than a hybrid. The Europeans have been kicking our butts with fuel economy for years now because of it.

[Q'smuscle]

Originally Posted by NVmyZL1

Ummmm...okay.

What you've pointed out is opinion and personal preference, what I pointed out is historical fact. Don't get me wrong, throughout its history, the Camaro has almost always improved upon what ever it's Mustang counterpart was offering at the same time, but it does not change the fact that the Camaro was originally a response to Ford's Mustang and, that relationship continues to this day.

You're correct ! I just felt like you wasn't giving. the camaro any credit for anything because I felt like Ford was cheating ppl and slacking by giving the v8 only 300 HP and the v6 only one tailpipe. But you're right ! it's not facts just a opinion. Chevy made Ford better. , Especially with the mustang though . Now that's a fact.

[RubyCamaro]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

Okay I'm sorry, but this post has so many things wrong with it, it's not even funny.

The Cruze has a 1.4L Turbocharged I-4. Sucks about your transmission issues but they've been fixed already.

Malibu has a 2.5L I-4. It's not the same 4-cylinder as Cruze. Nor is the uplevel engine, the 2.0L Turbocharged LTG I-4 which outperforms a ton of V6s from just a few years ago. Practically every media outlet that has test driven Malibu Turbo has concluded that it's more than an acceptable replacement for a V6.

Choices? We had a ton of choices in the past. Nobody picked them. That's why the midsize FWD coupe market is dead.

The name of the car is Cruze Clean Turbo Diesel for a reason. Diesel freaking rocks. Vastly superior fuel economy and more power. There's a reason diesel has become the new eco-trend. Look at Chrysler and their EcoDiesels.

This isn't your grandfather's crappy Oldsmobile diesel. This is an engine designed to deliver a better mix of performance and fuel economy than a hybrid. The Europeans have been kicking our butts with fuel economy for years now because of it.

Very well, that all may be true. They still look way too plain. Not at all sexy or sporty. I just want my cars to have some character. If I don't like the way a car looks I am not motivated to go test drive it. I have absolutely no need for 4 doors. They spoil the look of the sides of the cars and that is 2 more door frames than I want to clean everytime I wash my car. Maybe coupes did not sell many or enough to survive in today's awful economy/marketplace but some were sold and those folks bought what THEY WANTED. I still want choices. So I bought one of the last nice looking, good quality, coupes on the market. So I will have the coupe I wanted for several years to come. Some of us are old and we don't want a car for the masses ala the original concept of the volkswagen. That is the world we are headed into. Drive the car they want you to drive, have the insurance they want you to have, ...............I don't need big brother. It is a principal thing.

[FenwickHockey65]

Not enough to justify building them.

Like Mark Reuss just said at LA regarding the Holden Ute...

"Why should we bring it here and lose money on them....it makes no sense."

Same thing applies to FWD midsize coupes.

[Q'smuscle]

Originally Posted by NVmyZL1

Competition always benefits the consumer! I don't agree that Ford "cheated" anyone with the Mustang before the new Camaro came along, however. If they had advertised on thing but sold something different, then you would have a case but buyers of Mustangs knew what they were getting when they bought the car. If everyone was buying iPhones and there was no smartphone competition to be had, do you really think Apple would be beyond an iPhone 2? Doubtful.

You're right! It's just my opinion. I just felt like they was holding back. But Hey, they probably didn't wanna give away anything because the 5th Gen was in the works in 2006.

[Normagene]

Originally Posted by NVmyZL1

Competition always benefits the consumer! I don't agree that Ford "cheated" anyone with the Mustang before the new Camaro came along, however. If they had advertised on thing but sold something different, then you would have a case but buyers of Mustangs knew what they were getting when they bought the car. If everyone was buying iPhones and there was no smartphone competition to be had, do you really think Apple would be beyond an iPhone 2? Doubtful.

Aahhh...... The good old days, it's always nice to reminisce...... Just remembering those days of cruising around in that Pink Four Cylinder Mustang...... Thank God that wasn't me! Sounds more like a NIGHTMARE!!!!!!...... All I can say for sure is; if I ever see a four banger Mustang or Camaro I'll do my best not to pee my pants laughing!!!...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by Q'smuscle

You're right! It's just my opinion. I just felt like they was holding back. But Hey, they probably didn't wanna give away anything because the 5th Gen was in the works in 2006.

I don't think they were holding back, it's just they had no incentive to spend millions of dollars on developing more performance when they were the only game in town...as soon as they had competition coming to join them then it was time for them to step up their game and try to stay on top..

[Q'smuscle]

Originally Posted by RubyCamaro

Very well, that all may be true. They still look way too plain. Not at all sexy or sporty. I just want my cars to have some character. If I don't like the way a car looks I am not motivated to go test drive it. I have absolutely no need for 4 doors. They spoil the look of the sides of the cars and that is 2 more door frames than I want to clean everytime I wash my car. Maybe coupes did not sell many or enough to survive in today's awful economy/marketplace but some were sold and those folks bought what THEY WANTED. I still want choices. So I bought one of the last nice looking, good quality, coupes on the market. So I will have the coupe I wanted for several years to come. Some of us are old and we don't want a car for the masses ala the original concept of the volkswagen. That is the world we are headed into. Drive the car they want you to drive, have the insurance they want you to have, ...............I don't need big brother. It is a principal thing.

I think the Malibu looks Sweet ! If only they could have offered it in a V8 . Instead of the Chevy SS. The front of the Malibu is the only OK part. To me.

[Q'smuscle]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

I don't think they were holding back, it's just they had no incentive to spend millions of dollars on developing more performance when they were the only game in town...as soon as they had competition coming to join them then it was time for them to step up their game and try to stay on top..

Why wait and get complacent. ? GM is not waiting! I thought it was about being all you can be?

[Q'smuscle]

Originally Posted by NVmyZL1

You're likely to see several 4banger Mustangs in the coming years, so you might want to stock up on Depends. What's funny though, is that you're very likely to also see those turbo 4's putting the smack down on older V6 and possibly V8 Camaros and Mustangs.

You can make any car faster than another. We all know that. But I don't get hype when I see a little Dodge neon or a Honda civic beating a mustang , knowing that it is a 4 banger.

[Q'smuscle]

Originally Posted by NVmyZL1

He just explained why there was no added horsepower to the Mustang for many years, what part of "they had no reason" did you not get? How much power has GM added to the LS motor in the SS Camaro since 2010?

And, no, that's the Army's old slogan, not Ford's.

GM didn't need more horsepower just the 1LE package. Camaro track and mustang drag. There are more mustang owners buying camaros than camaro owners buying mustangs for a reason. The Army's slogan ? So I guess Ford don't need to strive to be better, if there is no competition?