Z/28 blows C7 away !

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

I thought this thread was comparing the Z/28 and C7 Corvette???

2013 RaceRed 5.0 lives in a world where only Mustangs and Camaros exist.

[102SS]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

I thought this thread was comparing the Z/28 and C7 Corvette???

I tried going back to topic

[McRat]

Originally Posted by 2013 RaceRed 5.0

...
So all of a sudden no one knew anything about the Camaro? Hmm ...

Sometimes GM marketing drops the ball. If you went by advertising in 1998-2002, you'd barely know the Camaro existed, nor that had an aluminum V8 capable of high 12 second ET's, 155mph top speed (limited), and was EPA rated at 27mpg highway. A veritable supercar at discount pricing.

If people knew the Camaro was best ponycar on the market, would it have changed the declining sales? Dunno.

I was at a driving school yesterday with about a dozen other parents. GM is apparently doing the same with the 2011-2014 Volt. None of the parents knew it was a plug in electric with an aux gas engine. They assumed it was a normal hybrid. It was going faster through the slalom and braking in a shorter distance than the other late model family cars. All the instructors were impressed with it's performance. These guys are race car drivers, not driver's ed teachers. They also teach Grand Prix / SCCA classes.

Have you seen GM advertise the Volt as a "sporty" car? It certainly is. Handles like it's on rails, instant throttle response at all speeds, and has the brakes of death.

People don't want a $36k economy car, they will buy a $36k sportscar.

Mustang celebrating 50 continuous years of production.

Exactly.

How's that T-Bird doing? 61 years of Corvettes.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by McRat

Sometimes GM marketing drops the ball. If you went by advertising in 1998-2002, you'd barely know the Camaro existed, nor that had an aluminum V8 capable of high 12 second ET's, 155mph top speed (limited), and was EPA rated at 27mpg highway. A veritable supercar at discount pricing.

If people knew the Camaro was best ponycar on the market, would it have changed the declining sales? Dunno.

It also didn't help to run the Camaro production cycle 10 years. (93-02). Agree that the 98-02 LS1 equipped cars were bad a@@.

As for comparing the Z/28 to the C7. Depends on what the expectation of the driver is. I'd choose the Z/28 every day of the week. Power, handling, exclusivity, more interior room. Add that in 5 years a 2014 C7 will be just another used Corvette and the Z/28 is a modern classic that will be held in high regard long into the future.

[Fenderaddict2]

Originally Posted by Skylane765

They did but do not now, so why they do not not make one?

They don't need another "Halo" car, as the Mustang with its brand history and recognition fills that role in a way the Camaro never could. Also Ford is in business to make money, and has probably looked at the market for American 2-seat sports cars and figured out the development costs won't allow it. Finally, Ford bringing another 2-seat sports car to the market would likely kill it, the Corvette and most certainly the Viper by fragmenting the market to the point none were viable financially. And they have considered it, for as much as the insiders I know at Ford hate GM, the do respect a small cadre of engineers and all love the Corvette. They consider it another original American icon. So basically the Corvette lives because of Ford. Not kidding.

PS, in case you were wondering, tonne of respect for engineering on the ZL1 and Z/28 but as expected a lot of hate for the Camaro and the brand teams wait and see what Ford does attitude. Still, this kind of condition is good for us, with news all the greatness we have to choose from lately.

[Number 3]

Death of the Camaro was more to do with very poor V6 sales as I recall, not poor marketing.

Seriously guys and gals as much as I drove Camaros for 1993 to 2002 (I drove them a lot whenever I could) it was a crappy V6 model. Not really from a performance standpoint, but if you just wanted nice V6 car to drive around you had NO back seat, it was a hatch with no real space for luggage or anything. Getting in and out was very nearly as bad as the Corvette, so it wasn't a car many ladies were going to buy, unless they just wanted a Camaro. This is why I hammer on making the Gen6 car a great coupe, not just a great Camaro. My recollection was the V8 sales held up well right up to the end. But overall sales were very poor and risking the money for an all new car was iffy.

I recall going into a conference room back in the 90's with the line drawings of the next F-bodies on the wall. Over on another wall was a Cadillac sedan that was proposed off of that architecture. The Cadillac lived on as the first gen CTS. Not so much for the F-body.

Oh yeah, about that C7 getting blown away...................waiting on that first Comparo. C7 is still down about 400 pounds and is only giving up 50 HP. I look forward to the results. Z51 package on top of the C7 and it's too close to call right now.

[102SS]

Originally Posted by Fenderaddict2

They don't need another "Halo" car, as the Mustang with its brand history and recognition fills that role in a way the Camaro never could. Also Ford is in business to make money, and has probably looked at the market for American 2-seat sports cars and figured out the development costs won't allow it. Finally, Ford bringing another 2-seat sports car to the market would likely kill it, the Corvette and most certainly the Viper by fragmenting the market to the point none were viable financially. And they have considered it, for as much as the insiders I know at Ford hate GM, the do respect a small cadre of engineers and all love the Corvette. They consider it another original American icon. So basically the Corvette lives because of Ford. Not kidding.

PS, in case you were wondering, tonne of respect for engineering on the ZL1 and Z/28 but as expected a lot of hate for the Camaro and the brand teams wait and see what Ford does attitude. Still, this kind of condition is good for us, with news all the greatness we have to choose from lately.

Some how I don't think Ford gives a rats ass whether the Vette or Viper survives.

If they could make a business case that made sense and money they would be in that market.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by 102SS

Some how I don't think Ford gives a rats ass whether the Vette or Viper survives.

If they could make a business case that made sense and money they would be in that market.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Number 3

I recall going into a conference room back in the 90's with the line drawings of the next F-bodies on the wall. Over on another wall was a Cadillac sedan that was proposed off of that architecture. The Cadillac lived on as the first gen CTS. Not so much for the F-body.

Curious... Did that 90s F-body concept resemble the current model?

[joeybsyc]

I just hope they don't "drop the ball" again in 2016 and not get the 6th gen car out without a year or more "hiatus"... No one ever talks of that, but I worry they'll end the 5th gen run in 2015 then won't have the all new cars ready for a model year or more. Seems like we should be seeing all sorts of spy shots of test mules and pre-production cars by now. Didn't we see disguised C7 vettes testing several years before they were officially unveiled? We all saw pretty much what the current generation Camaro was going to look like back in 2006.. a full 3 years before the first one came off the production line.

[SGOS252382]

In one of my new car magazines I read that Ford was stopping production of the GT500. Maybe that's old news or new news. It's the first I had read that.

They are going to focus on a more track oriented car. The 1LE, ZL1, and now Z28 are kicking Ford's butt on the road course tracks.

[PeeBee]

Originally Posted by HumanWiki

I would expect a Suburban would have more open room inside the cabin than a sports car. That's kind of the point though.

I can safely confirm that the Suburban actually does feel quite a bit roomier than the Camaro... LOL

[brt3]

Originally Posted by SGOS252382

In one of my new car magazines I read that Ford was stopping production of the GT500. Maybe that's old news or new news. It's the first I had read that.

They are going to focus on a more track oriented car. The 1LE, ZL1, and now Z28 are kicking Ford's butt on the road course tracks.

There are a number of rumors on the Interwebs around the curb weight of the new Mustang -- which has been curiously absent from the spec sheets to date. The speculation seems to be that the Mustang is getting heavier by 200-300 pounds -- and will be losing it's weight advantage in the Pony Cars wars.

IF this is true, and IF the C6 comes out lighter than the C5 (hard to believe it won't be at least 200 pounds lighter), then Team Mustang will have to work extra hard to stay on even footing with the Camaro...

[Fenderaddict2]

Originally Posted by 102SS

Some how I don't think Ford gives a rats ass whether the Vette or Viper survives.

If they could make a business case that made sense and money they would be in that market.

It's not whether they could survive, it's whether the category could. They'd all lose; too niche.