[Thor142]

Originally Posted by Raven87

Look, this is not bitching when the facts are clear that the newest version of the Camaro is DROPPING in sales numbers each month while the other two competitors' numbers are rising.

This disingenuous assumption that GM is selling the number they want is ludicrous. If that is the case, they would not have a 4 month inventory on the lots and they would not be making more and more each day only to see them get stacked deeper with the hope that, well, they will sell eventually and we will make the big bucks when it does.

Just like the 5th Gen Z/28.

I don't buy it for one minute that this declining sales number is or will remain acceptable. While making good profit on the car that is sold is good business, selling LESS and LESS of them each month is not sound sales strategy. You would not want to incur production costs in an item for sale IF IT DOES NOT SELL and the sales drop consecutively.

When buyers see the lots getting more and more of the cars just sitting there the thought process is that 'Any day now will be the fire sale with big rebates'. So they wait even more - or go buy a Mustang or Challenger.

And we all know that using rebates to move product tells you one thing - it was overpriced to begin with. GRRR!

This has nothing to do with selling more than Ford or Dodge - it has to do with selling what you make. If what you make does not sell, there is a problem.

GM has a problem with the new Camaro sales plain and simple and anyone who thinks otherwise has their head in the sand. You can argue that they would have more incentives if they were worried but GM has proven before that they wait too late to do enough things that should have been done long before the ax fell.

I have nothing to add to this......but I felt the need to say

[ChefBorOzzy]

Originally Posted by Wireeater

You keep talking about the Company as a whole. This discussion isn't about what GM is doing across the whole business. Cutting fleet sales isn't just for the Camaro, it's for many models. Their profits, or sales growth for July reflects nothing in regards to the actual Camaro in the reports so far other than they are down compared to previous yearly figures. This thread is in regards to the Camaro sales. And so far, nobody has shown any proof that the Camaro is selling the way GM wants it to, or if it's profitable, or if they really want to sell less units at a higher cost/profit. Everyone is just making assumptions.

Same can be said for people who say that Camaro is losing GM money..

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by ssrs2lt

Sales drive profit..

But not all sales are created equal.... Samsung crushes Apple in smartphone sales, but Apple crushes everyone on profits.

You don't need to sell the farm in order to make a good profit.

Of course the question is GM making more money with the 6th gen sales at their current levels vs the 5th gens. And we do not know the answer to that.

This argument gets so old because all we do is speculate every freaking month.

[Davy_Baby9]

Don't worry guys, being dead last to its competitors in a brand new refresh was all part of the plan. Said no businessman ever. Lol.

It sucks but it's the truth. The introduction of the 1LE and ZL1 should help but those are low volume models. The Camaro is the hardest to live with out of the three and it's showing. GM shouldn't have listened to the 5th gen fans when remodeling this one. I really want a 1LE but cross shopping a scat pack and GT PP are also on my list. Depending on pricing so is a 2015 Z/28.

[ChefBorOzzy]

Originally Posted by Davy_Baby9

Don't worry guys, being dead last to its competitors in a brand new refresh was all part of the plan. Said no businessman ever. Lol.

It sucks but it's the truth. The introduction of the 1LE and ZL1 should help but those are low volume models. The Camaro is the hardest to live with out of the three and it's showing. GM shouldn't have listened to the 5th gen fans when remodeling this one. I really want a 1LE but cross shopping a scat pack and GT PP are also on my list. Depending on pricing so is a 2015 Z/28.

Why would the Z/28 be on your list when it's easily the hardest one to live with? Your statements sound very contradicting.


Want a cruiser? Buy the Challenger.
Want a balance of usability and performance? Get the Mustang.
Want better performance out of the box and better parts? Get the Camaro.

[DenverTaco07]

Originally Posted by Wireeater

You keep talking about the Company as a whole. This discussion isn't about what GM is doing across the whole business. Cutting fleet sales isn't just for the Camaro, it's for many models. Their profits, or sales growth for July reflects nothing in regards to the actual Camaro in the reports so far other than they are down compared to previous yearly figures. This thread is in regards to the Camaro sales. And so far, nobody has shown any proof that the Camaro is selling the way GM wants it to, or if it's profitable, or if they really want to sell less units at a higher cost/profit. Everyone is just making assumptions.

I was specifically replying to you regarding the notion that every company wants to sell more, and I think i've proven that is not always the case. It's 100% about profits, whether that means sell more for less per transaction, or sell less for more per transaction...IT'S ABOUT THE PROFITS.

I agree the sales are low as compared to previous years and vs. its traditional direct competitors, but i really don't care, I'm not sure why I should care - I mean are we going to start a rumble with the Mustangs and we just don't have the numbers to win.

I'm much more concerned about the Caprice sales.

[HogsFan75]

Some of the spinsters here should get a job in politics. It's very interesting to see the evolution of so many of your opinions month after month as the poor sales trend continues.

The argument that they want to keep sales low is pure gold by the way.

[DenverTaco07]

From GM's own mouth, they are reducing sales to Rental Fleet and maximizing per transaction profits. If you can't believe it, go and explain to them why it is such a huge mistake.

NOW THAT IS GOLD

[HogsFan75]

Originally Posted by DenverTaco07

From GM's own mouth, they are reducing sales to Rental Fleet and maximizing per transaction profits.

NOW THAT IS GOLD

GM does not want the car to be dead last to Mustang and Challenger month after month. Spin it how you want but that is crazy talk.

[irmb]

Originally Posted by HogsFan75

Some of the spinsters here should get a job in politics. It's very interesting to see the evolution of so many of your opinions month after month as the poor sales trend continues.

The argument that they want to keep sales low is pure gold by the way.

I'm not a spinster - and I haven't been here long.

But I am a businessperson/salesperson - and looking at sales numbers that focus on quantity sold - not total revenue or total margin is to put it bluntly, stupid.

You don't make money on units sold. You don't even make money on gross revenue - but it's a better indicator. You make money on margin.

Camaro has sold fewer units - but at higher prices.

Any business person would tell you this is preferable.

[Thor142]

Originally Posted by DenverTaco07

I was specifically replying to you regarding the notion that every company wants to sell more, and I think i've proven that is not always the case. It's 100% about profits, whether that means sell more for less per transaction, or sell less for more per transaction...IT'S ABOUT THE PROFITS.

I agree the sales are low as compared to previous years and vs. its traditional direct competitors, but i really don't care, I'm not sure why I should care - I mean are we going to start a rumble with the Mustangs and we just don't have the numbers to win.

I'm much more concerned about the Caprice sales.

I was willing to listen to the higher profits thing before but with 4 months of inventory sitting on lots (if thats true) and continuing poor sales the Camaro is not making money no matter how you spin it. You don't make profit in any business by stacking your inventory deeper each month and not rotating out old stock. Just sayin...

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by ChefBorOzzy

Technically, Mustang sales have been going down the last 3 months.. No idea how they compare year over year, but the peak was in April I believe and it's been going down since then... Still selling lots though.

Mustang did peak in April,

May 16 and June 16 year over year were both down for Mustang, July 16 was up.

[Posaune]

Originally Posted by DenverTaco07

From GM's own mouth, they are reducing sales to Rental Fleet and maximizing per transaction profits. If you can't believe it, go and explain to them why it is such a huge mistake.

NOW THAT IS GOLD

Camaro fleet was around 16-18% and is said to be 8-10% now. Sales are not off because of the GM wide fleet reduction.

[DenverTaco07]

Originally Posted by DenverTaco07

I agree the sales are low as compared to previous years and vs. its traditional direct competitors, but i really don't care, I'm not sure why I should care - I mean are we going to start a rumble with the Mustangs and we just don't have the numbers to win.

I'm much more concerned about the Caprice sales.

Originally Posted by HogsFan75

GM does not want the car to be dead last to Mustang and Challenger month after month. Spin it how you want but that is crazy talk.

I agree, as i quoted myself, that the numbers are low, but give it some more time, we can reschedule the Camaro vs. Mustang rumble for later.

Originally Posted by Thor142

I was willing to listen to the higher profits thing before but with 4 months of inventory sitting on lots (if thats true) and continuing poor sales the Camaro is not making money no matter how you spin it. You don't make profit in any business by stacking your inventory deeper each month and not rotating out old stock. Just sayin...

I agree, if they have that much inventory on hand...seems they aren't meeting goals. But I don't know the industry well enough to know if 4 months is bad, horrible, armageddon etc.