[TJ91]

Originally Posted by Sledgehammer70

My guess....

1SS
0-60: 4.5 seconds
1/4 mile: 12.4-12.5 at 113/114 mph
Lateral G's: 0.99-1.02
Braking distance 60-0 mph: 113-115 feet

2SS
0-60: 4.6 seconds
1/4 mile: 12.5-12.6 at 113/114 mph
Lateral G's: 0.97-1.01
Braking distance 60-0 mph: 116-119 feet

braking distance on the heavier 5th gens were about 109ft

[Blackdevil77]

I know I said it in my first post, but I'll say it again after learning more about the car, and after learning what the ATS-V is capable of.

0-60: 3.9-4.2 seconds

1/4 mile: 12.1-12.5 @ 114-117mph

Lateral G's: .99-1.03

Braking distance from 60mph: 99-106 feet, depending on brake package.


One thing I'm not so sure about is top speed, but if I had to guess, I'd say maybe it can tickle 185mph with a long enough straight, depending on drag.

[doc7000]

I was having an interesting conversation with a friend of mine about what Ford can do moving forward with its GT engine.

Practically the 5.0 coyote engine due to its small bore centers and narrow bores is really between a rock and a hard spot. 435BHP maybe about the limit for that engine while being OEM acceptable and within cost constraints. Considering the weight of the Mustang GT starting at 3,700 pounds and seemingly the weight of the SS Camaro starting at around the same point. Ford may have an option of dropping the 5.0 coyote engine in favor of an ecoboost engine.

Now before the Ford GT was shown off I thought this idea was insane, however if they are willing to take such an iconic car like the Ford GT and drop in an ecoboost engine then I think all bets are off for the GT. They get to push their "ecoboost" branding and at the same time have an engine that can easily make or exceed 455BHP.

My theory is that the 3.7L engine will get dropped from the lineup (unless it is selling well enough) making the $26,300 ecoboost Mustang the base model car. Then dropping the coyote engine in favor of a 3.5L ecoboost V-6 engine making 460BHP, maybe give the ecoboost Mustang engine a bump in power to about 330BHP.

[Jeffro19]

I don't see ford dropping the V8 on the GT for a while. But who knows time will tell.

[SuperSound]

Why wouldn't they just turbo the V8 and keep the Ecoboost train going that way? That would help the truck applications more than a turbo V6.

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[doc7000]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

Why wouldn't they just turbo the V8 and keep the Ecoboost train going that way? That would help the truck applications more than a turbo V6.

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I don't know why they didn't go with like a turbo voodoo engine for the Ford gt however a twin turbo 5.0 in the gt to compete with the SS camaro would be over kill.

[Number 3]

Considering the GT is announced with a TT V6, this is not out the realm of possibility. All V8s will likely get more and more rare as we move forward with Trucks being the last hold outs due to 2025 CAFE requirements.

So if forget Ford, as I often like to do, and simply look at the LF4 TTV6 in the ATS-V. That shows you right there what 3.6L TT V6 can do.

There will be a few hurt folks on this site if the ATS-V is a quicker car and better around the track than a Camaro 2SS..............my prediction if that happens but I'm not predicting it will happen.

[GretchenGotGrowl]

A small displacement FI V8 could get as good FE as a FI V6, but there would even be push back there. Look at the row the FI Z06 caused.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by GretchenGotGrowl

A small displacement FI V8 could get as good FE as a FI V6, but there would even be push back there. Look at the row the FI Z06 caused.

Not sure how you get that.

I guess I'd have to see your definition of "small displacement".

There would be no need to go to the expense of a sub 4.0L V8. At that point you just have a more expensive engine, all things being equal (DOHC, etc).

And there really isn't a need to go above 3.6L for a V6 at this point. So you'd never be equal in displacement.

And if you could get better FE from a small displacement V8 over a V6, you would see every automaker jumping on that CAFE opportunity.

[Obsessed 17]

Originally Posted by doc7000

I was having an interesting conversation with a friend of mine about what Ford can do moving forward with its GT engine.

Practically the 5.0 coyote engine due to its small bore centers and narrow bores is really between a rock and a hard spot. 435BHP maybe about the limit for that engine while being OEM acceptable and within cost constraints. Considering the weight of the Mustang GT starting at 3,700 pounds and seemingly the weight of the SS Camaro starting at around the same point. Ford may have an option of dropping the 5.0 coyote engine in favor of an ecoboost engine.

Now before the Ford GT was shown off I thought this idea was insane, however if they are willing to take such an iconic car like the Ford GT and drop in an ecoboost engine then I think all bets are off for the GT. They get to push their "ecoboost" branding and at the same time have an engine that can easily make or exceed 455BHP.

My theory is that the 3.7L engine will get dropped from the lineup (unless it is selling well enough) making the $26,300 ecoboost Mustang the base model car. Then dropping the coyote engine in favor of a 3.5L ecoboost V-6 engine making 460BHP, maybe give the ecoboost Mustang engine a bump in power to about 330BHP.

People have modded the mustang to get around 500 crank hp NA so doubt 435 is the limit. Add a supercharger/turbo and easily get 700 crank. Not to mention the engine/trans can handle 700hp with no issues. If the mustang looked better and had a trans like the A8 (or dual clutch) the choice of getting a Camaro would be a lot harder.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by Obsessed 17

People have modded the mustang to get around 500 crank hp NA so doubt 435 is the limit. Add a supercharger/turbo and easily get 700 crank. Not to mention the engine/trans can handle 700hp with no issues. If the mustang looked better and had a trans like the A8 (or dual clutch) the choice of getting a Camaro would be a lot harder.

It's not a question of what it can do modded. It's what they can do and pass emission and reliability targets. I'm sure there is some room in it, but lots of other factors involved too.

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[GretchenGotGrowl]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Not sure how you get that.

I guess I'd have to see your definition of "small displacement".

There would be no need to go to the expense of a sub 4.0L V8. At that point you just have a more expensive engine, all things being equal (DOHC, etc).

And there really isn't a need to go above 3.6L for a V6 at this point. So you'd never be equal in displacement.

And if you could get better FE from a small displacement V8 over a V6, you would see every automaker jumping on that CAFE opportunity.

I'm not suggesting this is something GM would do with the Gen V V8. I looking forward towards 2025, when the Gen VI will be out. They could produce a new line of V8s that range from 3.8 to 4.9L with twin turbos. By then "overboost" technology could have progressed such that a truck could have multiple settings...no boost in eco mode, light boost for hauling and high boost for towing. A similar engine could be used in high performance cars with eco/tour/sport/track modes that control the boost. Volvo has done variable boost before, and several European cars have low displacement V8s (even V12s). Will it get the same exact FE as a 3.6L or smaller V6? No. It will satisfy some of the American truck/performance car buyers that want a V8 or nothing. Remember, the 4.3L V6 in the full size trucks is basically a Gen V V8 with two cylinders removed and a different crank. Low displacement V8s don't seem out of the question IMHO.

[doc7000]

Originally Posted by Obsessed 17

People have modded the mustang to get around 500 crank hp NA so doubt 435 is the limit. Add a supercharger/turbo and easily get 700 crank. Not to mention the engine/trans can handle 700hp with no issues. If the mustang looked better and had a trans like the A8 (or dual clutch) the choice of getting a Camaro would be a lot harder.

It is one thing to make that kind of power..... it is a completely different thing to make that kind of power while meeting durability, fuel economy, emissions etc......

In other words Ford is probably not going to push their current factory 5.0L to 455BHP N/A. They can probably push up the power band however that is going to come at a cost down low.

If they want more power at a low rpm range then they need a wider bore, otherwise they can use more rpms (like with the voodoo engine).

This was the sacrifice Ford made for the benefit of getting the coyote engine to market faster and at a lower price point. They wanted to be able to use the same tooling so they stuck with the same bore spacing. Them modular motor (and carried over to the coyote) has a bore spacing of 3.937 inches. The coyote has a bore of 3.629 inches and a stroke slightly longer then the bore, this isn't considered ideal for a performance engine.

For comparison the 1969 BOSS 302 engine used a 4.000 inch bore and a 3.000 inch stroke. With 1960s technology they were pushing 400 horsepower, however they can not do that with the current block. The coyote would need better rotating mass in order to meet durability testing and spin to 8,000rpms which would probably make it cost too much for the Mustang GT price point. Also some it seems build and spin some of those old 302s up to 9,000rpms something that you wouldn't want to do with the coyote stroke.

[LilAndyG23]

I doubt ford will ever drop a v8 from the mustang. That's digging their own grave. As far as scrapping the coyote, it's likely... Seems like ford just can't figure out the recipe for a good motor, unlike the LS and LT's that have been around forever. Find a motor, build on it, stick with it. The coyote is great but if it is "maxed out" like someone else said, that's sad.