[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

Nah..

The 2013 GT500 thread holds that crown.

Where is that one? Did a search on Camaro 5 + 6....

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Depending on the price, I think it would be a waste. It is a GT PP1 with 15 more HP, a manual trans, and a Bullitt badge. If I were in the market I would get the regular GT PP1 over this and save the extra money. And I think the GT PP2 will probably be a better performance deal. I get it that not everyone is looking at it from a performance aspect. And I understand that not everyone is concerned with beating the Camaro. But in this conversation where we're discussing Mustang vs Camaro I would have to say the Bullitt doesn't sound like much of a performance deal.

The GT350 was built to be their ultimate car (for now). So I think it would hurt sales and their reputation if the GT350 gets discontinued and then for the next MY the GT comes out much cheaper and performs better. I don't think Ford will pull a stunt like that.

I get it's a mustang vs camaro thread, but the Bullitt was never really supposed to be a serious performance model ala Mach 1. Again I think they just gave it the PP1 and extra bit of power so that it would be more appealing than just special paint and trim pieces. Anyone looking at a Bullitt for it's performance advantages over a GT needs to do a bit more research on performance lol

Yes the 350 was built to be the ultimate car, at the same time look at all the updates the Mustang go for 18. The 350 didn't get any of those it's literally a carry over from the previous year which is why I think they don't care. Also people will still buy it just because it's got the Voodoo and the shelby name on it.

Originally Posted by Fraxum

Where is that one? Did a search on Camaro 5 + 6....

GT500 Vs ZL1 Megathread

[crysalis_01]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Depending on the price, I think it would be a waste. It is a GT PP1 with 15 more HP, a manual trans, and a Bullitt badge. If I were in the market I would get the regular GT PP1 over this and save the extra money. And I think the GT PP2 will probably be a better performance deal. I get it that not everyone is looking at it from a performance aspect. And I understand that not everyone is concerned with beating the Camaro. But in this conversation where we're discussing Mustang vs Camaro I would have to say the Bullitt doesn't sound like much of a performance deal.

The GT350 was built to be their ultimate car (for now). So I think it would hurt sales and their reputation if the GT350 gets discontinued and then for the next MY the GT comes out much cheaper and performs better. I don't think Ford will pull a stunt like that.

Well the 96-98 Cobra and subsequent 99-04 GT's had almost identical 0-60 and 1/4 times.

The 07-10 GT500 were a tick slower 0-60 and 1/4 than the 11 GT's.

So it's not without precedent.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I get it's a mustang vs camaro thread, but the Bullitt was never really supposed to be a serious performance model ala Mach 1. Again I think they just gave it the PP1 and extra bit of power so that it would be more appealing than just special paint and trim pieces. Anyone looking at a Bullitt for it's performance advantages over a GT needs to do a bit more research on performance lol

Right. But the entire point is that they have all the ingredients to make a killer and instead of throwing it all in one pot they decided to break it up amongst 3 different trims. And what is the point of buying the Bullitt which will be more expensive than the GT just for it to not do any better? The car will sell. I know that. People will buy it and they'll enjoy it. But to me it just isn't worth the money. I would just get a GT PP1 with the A10 trans which I bet might do better in the quarter than the Bullitt anyway.

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

Well the 96-98 Cobra and subsequent 99-04 GT's had almost identical 0-60 and 1/4 times.

The 07-10 GT500 were a tick slower 0-60 and 1/4 than the 11 GT's.

So it's not without precedent.

The New Edge GT had nothing on the 96-98 Cobras. Those 4V heads back then flowed better in stock form by a lot over ported 2V heads. And the 96-98 Cobra cams were the most aggressive cams Ford ever put in a Mustang up to that point. People were even taking those cams and putting them in the 03-04 Mach 1 and the Mark VIIIs. And the intake manifold on the 96-98 Cobra flowed like crazy. Add in the extra compression on the 96-98 Cobras and those GTs had absolutely nothing on them.

And those GT500s were running somewhere around 12.7s while the Gen 1 Coyote was a high 12 to low 13. If the GT won it was due to driver. But it was never a flat out win. At the fastest a 13-14 GT could match an 07-10 GT500. But again I never saw where it was a flat out win. The GT has never been faster than any higher tier Mustang in the same generation that I know of.

[72MachOne99GT]

The first 4.6 Cobras had a much better platform to build off of, but stock for stock..

They were very evenly matched.

Helped my brother find a nice low mileage ‘98 Cobra a couple years ago. Full exhaust and an intake and stock gears, and it feels like a dog. Looks great, just no faster than my geared ‘99GT

[crysalis_01]

Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT

The first 4.6 Cobras had a much better platform to build off of, but stock for stock..

They were very evenly matched.

Helped my brother find a nice low mileage ‘98 Cobra a couple years ago. Full exhaust and an intake and stock gears, and it feels like a dog. Looks great, just no faster than my geared ‘99GT

Yeah, those B-headed cars really needed 4.30's.

Anyway, I doubt PP2 will top GT350, and even if it does match one, I'd still take a 350 between the two. I imagine Bullitt GT will eek out ever so slightly better than a regular GT. Bullitt's have always been a car I've always admired, just never seems to be enough for me to pull thr trugver on. I got a really sweet offer on and '08 DHG Bullitt from my local dealer, when they first came out, but I never really liked the S197 styling.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT

The first 4.6 Cobras had a much better platform to build off of, but stock for stock..

They were very evenly matched.

Helped my brother find a nice low mileage ‘98 Cobra a couple years ago. Full exhaust and an intake and stock gears, and it feels like a dog. Looks great, just no faster than my geared ‘99GT

It could be a number of things wrong with his car. A lot of guys removed the IMRC plates on those Cobras which killed the little low end torque they had. So perhaps that is whats going on with his. Or it is just beaten to shit. But either way you can't really compare a geared GT to a bolt-on Cobra and make the determination that they were close when bone stock. Between those two stock to stock the Cobra will wipe the floor with the GT. Remember, the 99/01 Cobra was essentially the same engine as the 96-98 with just a few different components and they were still way faster than the GT. Same with the 03-04 Mach 1, they would destroy a GT. The GTs of those years were dogs bro.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Right. But the entire point is that they have all the ingredients to make a killer and instead of throwing it all in one pot they decided to break it up amongst 3 different trims. And what is the point of buying the Bullitt which will be more expensive than the GT just for it to not do any better? The car will sell. I know that. People will buy it and they'll enjoy it. But to me it just isn't worth the money. I would just get a GT PP1 with the A10 trans which I bet might do better in the quarter than the Bullitt anyway.

I get that, but chevy does the same thing, you can't get the auto in the SS1LE and you can't get the A10 in the ZLE. I think alot of people agree the auto especially the A10 would make the ZLE faster, but nope can't get one. And even before last year, you couldn't get the 1LE on a 2SS So Ford isn't the only one breaking stuff up around trims.

Now if you want to say they should have just made the 475 the standard engine I'll agree with you there, yeah they probably should have but I have no problem putting it in a special edition first.

The point of buying the Bullitt is the same as the Hot Wheels camaro. It's a special editon/appereance package. Ford just gave it a few extra HP to make it seem worth the $ for more than just special paint and wheels.

Do you have the same view on the Hot Wheels edition camaro or is that ok to pay an extra 5 grand for an appearance package and no "extra" performance? The Bullitt is the same thing but to make it more appealing they give it a slight power bump.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

It could be a number of things wrong with his car. A lot of guys removed the IMRC plates on those Cobras which killed the little low end torque they had. So perhaps that is whats going on with his. Or it is just beaten to shit. But either way you can't really compare a geared GT to a bolt-on Cobra and make the determination that they were close when bone stock. Between those two stock to stock the Cobra will wipe the floor with the GT. Remember, the 99/01 Cobra was essentially the same engine as the 96-98 with just a few different components and they were still way faster than the GT. Same with the 03-04 Mach 1, they would destroy a GT. The GTs of those years were dogs bro.

Yes yes the 99-04 GTs were dogs lol. I think stock mine went an impressive 14.50 at like 95MPH lol. Exhaust, CAI, Tune, 4.10s and it was still barely a 13.90 car lol. Wasn't until I did some suspension stuff and slapped some M/T on it that it became a consistent 13.60s car hahaha

[oldman]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I get that, but chevy does the same thing, you can't get the auto in the SS1LE

I think it is more that there is a heat buildup issue and GM feels they can't warranty it. I was surprised, I guess that the 1lE would be available with an auto, maybe the new 10 speed + additional cooling. ZR1 has 13 radiators

I love my M6, but realistically this is the last manual I'll own and it is just plain MUCH slower at every level including the autoX (I'm an oldman).

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT

The first 4.6 Cobras had a much better platform to build off of, but stock for stock..

They were very evenly matched.

Helped my brother find a nice low mileage ‘98 Cobra a couple years ago. Full exhaust and an intake and stock gears, and it feels like a dog. Looks great, just no faster than my geared ‘99GT

In NA trim, the 4.6L/4V Cobra Modular motors weren't particularly stronger than the 3-valve 4.6 that I've got in my car. 305/300 to 320/317 Cobra vs 300/315 (3-valve, 2005-2008ish) to 315/325 (3-valve, 2010 and FRPP).


Norm

[72MachOne99GT]

I was stating that stock, the ‘96-‘98 Cobras were 14 flat cars at 100mph. The PI 2V, while still a turd in most applications, was capable of the exact same times despite the power difference.

Mine went 13.636@100.8 with a 1.86 60’
I’ll have that slip memorized forever because 13.6s were my goal in that car.
5sp, midpipe, catback, 4.10s, and a tire.

Equally modified, nobody would argue a 4.6 Cobra of any year wouldn’t be faster.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Yes yes the 99-04 GTs were dogs lol. I think stock mine went an impressive 14.50 at like 95MPH lol. Exhaust, CAI, Tune, 4.10s and it was still barely a 13.90 car lol. Wasn't until I did some suspension stuff and slapped some M/T on it that it became a consistent 13.60s car hahaha

My 03 GT with FBO (except headers) went 14.1 in the quarter. That was the best I could get it. I then did BBK STs and Comp Cam stage 2 cams and although I had issues with PTV clearance and valve float I was able to get a 13.90 while coming off the gas towards the end of the quarter. LOL. My friend's FBO 98 Cobra was easily low 13s all day. And stock he was in the high 13s.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I get that, but chevy does the same thing, you can't get the auto in the SS1LE and you can't get the A10 in the ZLE. I think alot of people agree the auto especially the A10 would make the ZLE faster, but nope can't get one. And even before last year, you couldn't get the 1LE on a 2SS So Ford isn't the only one breaking stuff up around trims.

Now if you want to say they should have just made the 475 the standard engine I'll agree with you there, yeah they probably should have but I have no problem putting it in a special edition first.

The point of buying the Bullitt is the same as the Hot Wheels camaro. It's a special editon/appereance package. Ford just gave it a few extra HP to make it seem worth the $ for more than just special paint and wheels.

Do you have the same view on the Hot Wheels edition camaro or is that ok to pay an extra 5 grand for an appearance package and no "extra" performance? The Bullitt is the same thing but to make it more appealing they give it a slight power bump.

But you see, Chevy is winning the performance game right now. So they don't necessarily have to go all out. The Mustang has been getting beat by the 6th Gen Camaro all this time. So they could have made a special edition Mustang that has all the ingredients. That is what I'm saying.

And no, I wouldn't pay a dime extra for the HW Camaro.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

My 03 GT with FBO (except headers) went 14.1 in the quarter. That was the best I could get it. I then did BBK STs and Comp Cam stage 2 cams and although I had issues with PTV clearance and valve float I was able to get a 13.90 while coming off the gas towards the end of the quarter. LOL. My friend's FBO 98 Cobra was easily low 13s all day. And stock he was in the high 13s.

Yeah the 99-04 really needed to change the rear gears to get moving. IIRC GT's came with 3.27s from the factory. I put 4.10s in mine and that really helped it move. Good times lol

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

But you see, Chevy is winning the performance game right now. So they don't necessarily have to go all out. The Mustang has been getting beat by the 6th Gen Camaro all this time. So they could have made a special edition Mustang that has all the ingredients. That is what I'm saying.

And no, I wouldn't pay a dime extra for the HW Camaro.

Got you