[whiteboyblues2001]

Originally Posted by amerhash28

Thanks for this great post with all these good information. I agree on every thing u said but I believe the most important factor for choosing is taste and personal preference.i have an auto but I love the feel in the manual(makes me feel sporty all the time lol).I will ve tracking this car once a week and I don't want heat issues(I know it has 3 radiators) so I will go with manual this time.the reason I don't like the manual mode in autos is that they are slow but in some cases like the Ferrari F12 i enjoyed it billion times more than the manual its duel clutch,super fast changing gears,super smooth.if the camaro gets duel clutch in future I will definitely go with auto

I agree with you too... the most important factor is personal preference. Manuals can be a lot of fun, but the new technology is awesome too.

As for the heat issues, I am assuming you are talking about the A8 issues in the C7 Corvette. I have been following that a bit (but am not expert), and there are many key differences for the C7 with regards to the transmission and heat.

1. The Corvette's transmission is not directly connected to the engine like the Camaro's will be (and most every car on the planet), it is connected to the differential with a shaft the connects the engine with the transmission. So it's just in front of the rear axle.

2. Folks seem to think the heat issue is caused by the exhaust running close to the transmission in the rear of the car. So there may not be an issue with externally added heat to begin with in the Camaro as it is a completely and more traditional setup.

3. The C7 has an optional transmission cooler that collects air from the vent over the rear wheel, using forced induction under driving, with an electric fan that comes on when temps are too high. The Camaro has a completely different setup with a heat exchanger in the engine bay at the bottom of the box formed by the three engine coolant radiators. So again, the cooling is a completely different set up on the Camaro as well.

So to me, we really can't make any legitimate comparisons with regards to this issue on the C7. I am not saying any of this proves there WON'T be a heat issue. But it should be obvious, it would be foolish to make an assumption that there WILL be an issue.

[V6CamaroRS]

First off, kudos to whiteboyblues2001 for an amazingly detailed post! Can't imagine the amount of time you put into that!

Second, here are some links that can get you up to speed on a lot of the terminology thrown around this site:

http://www.drivingfast.net

http://www.howacarworks.com

The first site goes through a lot of the racing terminology like "heel toeing" to perform rev matching. The second, despite the name suggesting that it's an idiot's guide to cars, is an amazingly detailed description of how all the different car technologies work. Right down to explanations of each and every planetary gear. Pretty good stuff for getting caught up.

Hope this helps!

[amerhash28]

Originally Posted by jaymsu

Is manual faster than auto?
It used to be. Not any more, with newer automatic technologies, especially in straight line.
Is manual more fun? Definitely.



When you say 'track', you mean road course, not drag strip, right? If you track every week, you will become one heck of a driver. Make sure you flush the brake fluid with some nice DOT4 ones, and you may need to do that probably 2-3 times a year, if you track your car that often. Have fun!

Well,they just opened a great circuit track in dubai and one of the best formula 1 tracks(yas marina)is 80 miles away so im gonna track this thing every time im free of college.the last time I went to a track I made a total ass out of myself so lets hope I get better by time

[DevonK]

For those who think they'll use manual mode most of the time with the 8 speed auto and so will have the control and connection without the hassle of having to clutch, a word of caution based on experiences others have had with 8 speed autos.

I've been following the 2 series and M2 forums at 2addicts for quite a while. There are several former manual owners there who went for the highly-rated ZF 8 speed auto on their 2 series cars and came to regret it. Not because the ZF has any operational weaknesses, but because an 8 speed transmission leads them to have to shift too frequently for the process to be enjoyable - they wind up just letting the car do it automatically and then miss the driver involvement they had with their manuals.

[whiteboyblues2001]

Originally Posted by DevonK

For those who think they'll use manual mode most of the time with the 8 speed auto and so will have the control and connection without the hassle of having to clutch, a word of caution based on experiences others have had with 8 speed autos.

I've been following the 2 series and M2 forums at 2addicts for quite a while. There are several former manual owners there who went for the highly-rated ZF 8 speed auto on their 2 series cars and came to regret it. Not because the ZF has any operational weaknesses, but because an 8 speed transmission leads them to have to shift too frequently for the process to to be enjoyable - they wind up just letting the car do it automatically and then miss the driver involvement they had with their manuals.

Excellent point! I can see how that can come into play, now that you mention it.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by DevonK

For those who think they'll use manual mode most of the time with the 8 speed auto and so will have the control and connection without the hassle of having to clutch, a word of caution based on experiences others have had with 8 speed autos.

I've been following the 2 series and M2 forums at 2addicts for quite a while. There are several former manual owners there who went for the highly-rated ZF 8 speed auto on their 2 series cars and came to regret it. Not because the ZF has any operational weaknesses, but because an 8 speed transmission leads them to have to shift too frequently for the process to to be enjoyable - they wind up just letting the car do it automatically and then miss the driver involvement they had with their manuals.

I can vouch for that. Unless you are planning on triple digit speeds frequently, you will flip a couple of times for fun, then several more to settle into cruise. I more frequently flip the shifter into Sport and let the computer be more aggressive, then flip back to normal (such as in passing slower traffic or an on ramp accel).

[Stex]

The article here on the A8 overheating said the auto mode was faster on the track than the manual auto mode as the drivers shifted at the wrong times. That said a track manual maybe better in a pros hands but not in the less drivers????

As one that has had several AFM engine issues, if one is on the fence about which, I would say stick and no AFM. One thing about a stick in a high TQ car is you can Sunday drive when you want to. In town, 2 to 3rd or 4th and then 5th if necessary? Also less chance of a casual thief jacking it.

[vtirocz]

Originally Posted by Stex

The article here on the A8 overheating said the auto mode was faster on the track than the manual auto mode as the drivers shifted at the wrong times. That said a track manual maybe better in a pros hands but not in the less drivers????

As one that has had several AFM engine issues, if one is on the fence about which, I would say stick and no AFM. One thing about a stick in a high TQ car is you can Sunday drive when you want to. In town, 2 to 3rd or 4th and then 5th if necessary? Also less chance of a casual thief jacking it.

We don't know yet if the manual will still retain the AFM hardware. It might have it and just be tuned out of the way. I'm interested to find out.

Also, here's a comparison of M7 vs A8 acceleration times on the Stingray:
http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showpo...0&postcount=37
The auto holds a slight advantage from 0-30... but between 30-100 and 30-150mph, the manual is as quick or quicker. Based on one data point from each .. but at least both tests conducted by C&D.

Also, on a road course, the Z06 M7 was faster than the A8 when tested back to back by Motortrend. The manual Z06 ran a 1:25.00 and the automatic a 1:25.76.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz3hzmMTT8O

I currently have an M6 in my '00 Z28 and love it, but I'm on the fence between the choice now. When I bought mine, the auto option had half the gears it has now!

[Cody6.2]

Some folks need to understand the difference between consistency and being faster. Rarely is an automatic truly faster it's just that a manual requires a bit more finesse. In the proper hands the C7 manual is faster than the automatic. There is also a significant difference in trap speed also.

[whiteboyblues2001]

Originally Posted by Cody6.2

Some folks need to understand the difference between consistency and being faster. Rarely is an automatic truly faster it's just that a manual requires a bit more finesse. In the proper hands the C7 manual is faster than the automatic. There is also a significant difference in trap speed also.

Below is a breakdown of the auto vs. manual in the C7 as tested by Car & Driver from the link above. As you can see the trap speed of the auto is a little faster, and the auto had a better 0-60 and better 1/4 mile time. In fact the auto had a better 0-just about every speed (except 0-140 and 0-150). The Manual tied from 30-100, and was only better in the 30-150.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by Cody6.2

Some folks need to understand the difference between consistency and being faster. Rarely is an automatic truly faster it's just that a manual requires a bit more finesse. In the proper hands the C7 manual is faster than the automatic. There is also a significant difference in trap speed also.

Have you ever looked at the records on the C7 forum? Don't see any manuals running times lile the autos. You need to understand gearing is the key, not the fast shifting or consistency.

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[SupportGeek]

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

11. The automatic usually gets slightly better gas mileage.

This is the only point I think is more of a case by case thing, Ive been looking at a lot of vehicles recently and its the exception still for the auto to get better mileage than a manual (at least according to manufacturer specs) Although in almost all cases its close enough not to matter anymore.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by SupportGeek

This is the only point I think is more of a case by case thing, Ive been looking at a lot of vehicles recently and its the exception still for the auto to get better mileage than a manual (at least according to manufacturer specs) Although in almost all cases its close enough not to matter anymore.

In town, I would say yes but you will not find a 6 speed that will best a 8 speed on the highway. This is reason they are rated better for the EPA figures. More gears equals better FE all other things being equal. This trend only started after autos started having the same or more gears than their manual equipped counterparts.

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[Cody6.2]

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

Below is a breakdown of the auto vs. manual in the C7 as tested by Car & Driver from the link above. As you can see the trap speed of the auto is a little faster, and the auto had a better 0-60 and better 1/4 mile time. In fact the auto had a better 0-just about every speed (except 0-140 and 0-150). The Manual tied from 30-100, and was only better in the 30-150.

When they did the first tests of the C7 Z06 the manual was trapping 3-4mph faster than the auto.