[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by LSXaddict

1: I think the author grossly misinterpreted Al
2: If Ford does a 4cyl Turbo Mustang and Chevy fails to answer back then I think that will be GM giving up a huge market share out of sheer arrogance.
3: Some of you older V8 guys need to get off your couchs and go out and drive an Evo, STI, BMW 328I (F30), or a Mazda Speed 3 and see just how potent a well built 4cyl Turbo can be.
4: A lot of you will be upset if a 4 banger was introduced but I would place my money that you would be a whole lot more upset if the Camaro dissapeared all together simply because Chevy didn't want to adapt.

Number 4 hit the nail in the head. You have to move with the times or become extinct like a dinosaur.

[OldScoolCamaro]

Originally Posted by NVmyZL1

You're likely to see several 4banger Mustangs in the coming years, so you might want to stock up on Depends. What's funny though, is that you're very likely to also see those turbo 4's putting the smack down on older V6 and possibly V8 Camaros and Mustangs.

...I knew you were a Ford troll....LOL>..............muuuuhhaaaaaaa. I rest my case your Honor.

[FenwickHockey65]

This is easily one of the best engines GM has in production right now. If you're discounting it just because it's down four cylinders, that's pure stupidity.

[Normagene]

Just did a little more reading on the electric assist motors coming out on several of the European cars with MPGs estimated in the 90 mile range. A few of the very hi end ones have been thoroughly tested and now testing on the mid range and low end models is in the works. The 918 Spyder (the very hi end of the market) has a 0 to 60 time of 2.5 seconds. 0 to 124 time 7.2 and to 186 in 19.9. First production road legal car to do the Ring under the 7 minute mark. So I'm guessing in just a few years these electric assist Muscle Cars and Supercars will become the norm.

Hybrids have been around for decades now, and finally manufactures are moving the technology into the Muscle Car realm. It will be pretty exciting to see an electric assisted Camaro that's even faster than the ZL1 and getting 60 plus miles per gallon! Whether it's powered with a four, six or eight cylinder engine is yet to be seen. Hopefully GM jumps on board before Ford gets theirs out to the masses. I'm sure both are working on it!


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[Normagene]

Originally Posted by NVmyZL1

It's called innovation and progress. Those that fail to find new and better ways to do something will be relegated to the trash-bin of history. Go back and look at how people who had horse and buggies reacted to the first automobiles.

I agree completely! The Europeans stopped trying to squeeze every ounce of juice out of the four cylinders years ago. For the past few years it's all about adding to the current technology. Come 2015 to 2016 just about every model European car sold will be available with electric assist. It's not about just the MPGs anymore, they want PERFORMANCE. You'll be able to get a small size car in the 20K range that will get 60 plus MPGs, but also go 0 to 60 in the 4 to 5 second range. Mid size to full size sedans 30K and up and depending on which model you purchase will be able to put down the same kind of MPGs with 0 to 60 times in the three second range!

Audi, BMW, Fiat, and Volkswagen all have cars in the 20K and up price range coming out with these kinds of numbers. I'm sure Ford and Chevy are not far behind. I think we'll soon be seeing some seriously exciting competition in the Muscle Car departments between Ford and GM!


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[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Normagene

I agree completely! The Europeans stopped trying to squeeze every ounce of juice out of the four cylinders years ago. For the past few years it's all about adding to the current technology. Come 2015 to 2016 just about every model European car sold will be available with electric assist. It's not about just the MPGs anymore, they want PERFORMANCE. You'll be able to get a small size car in the 20K range that will get 60 plus MPGs, but also go 0 to 60 in the 4 to 5 second range. Mid size to full size sedans 30K and up and depending on which model you purchase will be able to put down the same kind of MPGs with 0 to 60 times in the three second range!

Audi, BMW, Fiat, and Volkswagen all have cars in the 20K and up price range coming out with these kinds of numbers. I'm sure Ford and Chevy are not far behind. I think we'll soon be seeing some seriously exciting competition in the Muscle Car departments between Ford and GM!


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Even if we grant you that the "$20K range" is $29,999 you aren't going to see a car that gets 60 mpg and gets to 60 mph I under 5 seconds until you see the quantum leap in propulsion. The closest to what you suggest is the Tesla and that's an expensive car.

Electric assist is what GM already has in production and it isn't the same as what is in the new 918. I think you are right but I think you are at least 10 years off........more like 15.

And I hope you are right and Im wrong and it is the answer to CAFE.

[Mikes SS]

Not sure what makes the "LTG" the most impressive engine GM has to offer, the clean diesel in the cruze makes more power and gets better MPG's and the all new 4.3 makes more and could get better than 24MPG's in a lighter platform and doesn't have the headaches of extra things that could break like the turbo, size of packaging, air/air cooler and weight considerations? The 4.3(LV3) truly got the best upgrades as far as HP/TQ gains of all the new engines and best increase in MPG's...and that is currently slated for a 2 TON TRUCK!!

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by Mikes SS

Not sure what makes the "LTG" the most impressive engine GM has to offer, the clean diesel in the cruze makes more power and gets better MPG's and the all new 4.3 makes more and could get better than 24MPG's in a lighter platform and doesn't have the headaches of extra things that could break like the turbo, size of packaging, air/air cooler and weight considerations? The 4.3(LV3) truly got the best upgrades as far as HP/TQ gains of all the new engines and best increase in MPG's...and that is currently slated for a 2 TON TRUCK!!

The Cruze Diesel has 272 HP and close to 300 lb ft of torque? Hot damn.

And seriously? A truck engine is what you want to compare it to? Let me know when the LV3 delivers 30+ MPG in any application. And I fail to see how "size of packaging" and "weight considerations" make the LV3 a better engine when the LTG is smaller and lighter.

And of course it had the most improvements. The outgoing 4.3L was ridiculously outdated. There was nowhere for it to go but up.

It'd be like going from a quarter horse to a Corvette and being astonished at how much faster the Corvette is. Don't get me wrong, LV3 is a fantastic engine, but there's a reason it's a truck engine.

[Normagene]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Even if we grant you that the "$20K range" is $29,999 you aren't going to see a car that gets 60 mpg and gets to 60 mph I under 5 seconds until you see the quantum leap in propulsion. The closest to what you suggest is the Tesla and that's an expensive car.

Electric assist is what GM already has in production and it isn't the same as what is in the new 918. I think you are right but I think you are at least 10 years off........more like 15.

And I hope you are right and Im wrong and it is the answer to CAFE.

I think it's coming a lot faster than you think! The Hyper Supercars are the proving grounds for the technology. Now it's going into the trickle down manufacturing levels. Not only cars, they have several SUVs coming out as well. But my focus is on the Performance side of the house. Plenty of cars already get 40/50 MPGs, but they know the customer wants pep with those numbers, that's where the market is, so that's been the primary goal. Back to the Hyper Supercars for a second, the new Ferrari, aka La Ferrari, is one of these Hybrids and they are only making 499, all of which have been Pre-sold. Boys and their Toys!


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[Silverlsinva]

Originally Posted by Normagene

I think it's coming a lot faster than you think! The Hyper Supercars are the proving grounds for the technology. Now it's going into the trickle down manufacturing levels. Not only cars, they have several SUVs coming out as well. But my focus is on the Performance side of the house. Plenty of cars already get 40/50 MPGs, but they know the customer wants pep with those numbers, that's where the market is, so that's been the primary goal. Back to the Hyper Supercars for a second, the new Ferrari, aka La Ferrari, is one of these Hybrids and they are only making 499, all of which have been Pre-sold. Boys and their Toys!


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Actually racing is more the proving grounds for the new tech that trickles down into production cars well performance tech I should say. The new S Class Mercedes is what you can expect cars to have in the next 10 years. As for the New La Ferrari and they are presold to Current Ferrari owners not some newb lotto winner.

[Normagene]

Originally Posted by Silverlsinva

Actually racing is more the proving grounds for the new tech that trickles down into production cars well performance tech I should say. The new S Class Mercedes is what you can expect cars to have in the next 10 years. As for the New La Ferrari and they are presold to Current Ferrari owners not some newb lotto winner.

Darn, all that Lotto Money, and I still can't get one! I agree w/racing trickle down, buy the Hyper Supercars are production road legal cars and now the trickle is going into the full market. Small, Mid Size, or Full Size Sedans. Mercedes sure, but that's like saying Ford is Chevy is leading the way, Audi and BMW have a few surprises coming out real soon, and of course don't forget Porsche who currently leads in the fastest production car, of course that changes almost daily!


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[Normagene]

Originally Posted by NVmyZL1

It's called innovation and progress. Those that fail to find new and better ways to do something will be relegated to the trash-bin of history. Go back and look at how people who had horse and buggies reacted to the first automobiles.

Love checking out all the old day cars. Crazy how there was hundreds of car makers. Also the steering wheel was on the right, and then some moved to the middle and eventually to the left side. Also like the three cans that came with the cars for extra gas/alcohol, water, and one with oil. Gas stations were far and few in between. As popularity grew barbers, blacksmiths, and general stores sold fuel. Funny how they first followed horse rules of the road and drove on the left side of the road.


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[Fenderaddict2]

Originally Posted by Q'smuscle

GM didn't need more horsepower just the 1LE package. Camaro track and mustang drag.

Wish this were true, But I seldom, if ever see a Camaro at the track. It's all Porsches, Corvettes, Mustangs, WRX's, GT-R's and Miatas. Hopefully the Z/28 changes that and each and every one of them gets driven hard, rather than put away for future investment.

[Fenderaddict2]

Originally Posted by 2010-1SS-IBM

Why do you keep bringing the V6 into this? No one is arguing against the V6, however a TTI4 is actually a threat to a V6, so if anyone is against a V6 it's the 4 cylinder fans. Also, does anyone even know if the 4 cylinder actually has better gas mileage than the V6 in the same car? I'd be willing to bet it doesn't.



You contradict yourself here. The Mustang II was a sales success, but GM gets knocked for having too many offerings? You'd like GM to put profits over volume, and yet you're arguing for a 4 cylinder car specifically for volume. You should listen to yourself.

GM needs to sell cars people want to buy. They don't have to reinvent the wheel.

Actually you are agreeing with what I said, or intended to say. Or perhaps your simply missing my point hidden beneath my sarcasm. I'm not knocking a V6, so why knock a 4? And GM does need to sell what people want to buy, and there are those who love the looks of a Camaro but probably would be happy with a turbo four in the lighter next gen model. I'm a V8 fan, through and through, but if it guarantees the survival of Camaros and Mustangs, I say put 4,6 and 8's in them. The more choice, the more sales, the better.