[samurai]

Originally Posted by rickr9504

How can it be the worse selling car if you can't find any on the lot? The simple answer is that they have stopped producing it and are moving away from big engines and they are starting with the lowest seller. The chip shortage has been affecting the Camaro more than any other, because GM is prioritizing the higher selling cars such as the Silverado or Equinox. I have been looking for a new red 2SS 1LE manual for a year now and cannot find the one I want. Most 1LE are in transit on the Chevy page and automatics. There are none on the dealers' lot. Those that you can find, are ridiculously marked up and dealers are refusing to negotiate to a fair price. If you can afford it and don't care about the high price, then great. I just refuse to pay more than what the car is worth and if I can get a discount, even better. The large majority of people in the market are probably like me.

Even without the production issues the sales are at best half of what both competitors sell (who already had chip shortage issues). Chevrolet prioritizing other vehicles before the Camaro is another big sign that Chevrolet has no interest in the Camaro anymore.

[redcoats1976]

if there ever is a 7th gen camaro it wont need a radiator opening and styling wont have to be penned around hoodlines,gas tank,etc.a bold designer could plop the passenger cabin much further forward with a short,sloping hood,2 doors and a larger backseat and more usable trunk area.imagination would be the only limiting factor.might be some young designer out there with sketches that would knock our socks off. think of the radical designs like the tucker or some of the modern supercars.base car could be 0-60 in 4 seconds,SS could do it in 2.5 but cost much more.it might not be called a camaro but it will eventually get here...IMO

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by Number 3

So now no one likes EVs but somehow eMuscle Dodge is the car to beat. We know nothing about the Dodge but a smoky image.

Trust me, if GM does an electric Camaro, it will be very interesting.

Also not sure where you got 4 motor 500 miles range pickup from Tesla for 70 to 80 grand. Was that announced? A Model S P100D is well North of $100,000 and no Tesla has a 500 mile range yet. Only Lucid has done that in production.

As for Dodge, I am only referring to the fact that their CEO has publicly announced a vision and direction for their brand as they move toward EVs in 2024. It appears that they are trying to get ahead of this with their customer base. I have no idea if their EVs will be any good but based on their track record they will have much better branding and advertising, which will be more an important than ever as they try and maintain their existing customer base.

As for Tesla, they announced and took reservations for three versions of the CyberTruck.

- Single Motor with 250 mile range, 5.6 sec 0-60mph for $39.9k
- Dual Motor with 300+ mile range, 4.5 sec 0-60mph for $49.9k
- Tri-Motor with 500+ mile range, 2.9 sec 0-60mph for $69.9k

About 3-4 months ago they took down the pricing and specs on the Cybertruck. Based on the latest Elon tweets and speculation on the forums they will have two trims to start now. A dual motor as planned with north of 300 mile range and a quad motor with a 500+ mile range and 4-wheel steering. They will be using the new 4680 Panasonic battery cells, which have 5 times the storage capacity and cost 50% less to produce. The big question is how much will these trims go up in price considering supply chain challenges, inflation, etc. Tesla currently has over 1.2M reservations for the Cybertruck so even if they increase the price $5-10k and the drop 50% of the reservations you are still looking at 2-3 years to get one assuming they can crank them about a 200,000 a year.

[IneedAZ]

Don't forget, Chevy already made electric Camaros, so the platform is there...Just a matter of making them for standard production! I would imagine they will offer different power levels as well if they go that route.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Camaro is simply a sportY personal coupe. It's what the Pony Car is. From the interwebs - The term describes an affordable, compact, highly styled car with a sporty or performance-oriented image.

Yes, variants over time took on more HP and handling to the point where GM has recently marketed the Camaro as BOTH a Muscle car AND a Sports car. Go figure.

If they make an engaging, fun to drive great coupe, I have no problem carrying the name over. Now if they put it on an SUV like Ford did or on a Chevy sedan as rumored, NOPE!

If they do it the way I hope they do, it will simply enhance the name and heritage.

Originally Posted by 95 imp

Huh?

It's been marketed that way since 1967. The 302 was specifically designed for SCCA racing and the 396 was put in for NHRA racing/street muscle.

This very rough chart is how I view the whole sports car/ pony car / muscle car universe. We used something similar and more formal during my Competitor Intelligence days. Think of the whole squares / rectangles / parallelogram thing. All squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares. Same goes for parallelograms. Sporty cars fall into a number of buckets, and sometimes the same vehicle can be representative of more than one bucket. I could have muddied the picture more by introducing categories like “Grand Touring” and “Rally”. The overall theme is that the latest (and last?) crop of cars are not one trick ponies ( ). Calling a Camaro a sports car would be correct. Calling it a pony car would be correct. Calling it a muscle car would be correct. It has the performance and price bandwidth to fit into any of those buckets, sometimes multiple buckets. It all comes down to how the owner equips and uses it. I use my Camaro SS Convertible as a grand touring muscle car. I attack Tail of the Dragon and Lapeer International Dragway, with the top down cruising to get to those places and back.

[Gunkk]

Originally Posted by MR-02

#1 The cold fart-can obnoxious start-up instead of the deep rumble it should have, like the gen 5 had.
#2 The mushy squishy unresponsive throttle

My car has neither of those issues.

At our last club meet a 5th gen guy was commenting how he liked the 6th gen exhaust sound so much better than his car. So maybe it's your car... or just you?

[FlukeSS]

Originally Posted by plus1zero

Depends on how much gas gets hiked up. If it hits $8-9/gal in an effort to push people to EVs there's not gonna be too many people wanting them other than weekend cars. When gas spiked for awhile back in 2012--2014 trucks seemingly took a hit in value due to gas prices.

Define Irony: $9/gallon to push people to EV. Yet EV cost more than the SS. It is literally not practical or affordable to switch to EV.

I refuse to pay $40,000 for a Tesla. $20,000 to $30,000 sure.

The issue with EV is there is no affordable option to switch even if we weren't a bunch Adrenaline junkies.

No Thanks, I will switch to a charger/mustang before then. And buy a truck for a daily driver that I can mod tf out of.

[Hops]

Originally Posted by FlukeSS

Define Irony: $9/gallon to push people to EV. Yet EV cost more than the SS. It is literally not practical or affordable to switch to EV.

I refuse to pay $40,000 for a Tesla. $20,000 to $30,000 sure.

The issue with EV is there is no affordable option to switch even if we weren't a bunch Adrenaline junkies.

No Thanks, I will switch to a charger/mustang before then. And buy a truck for a daily driver that I can mod tf out of.

Really, the Bolt is an affordable option ~$32k, i remember seeing them new, heavily discounted in the low $20's before covid.... wish i bought one then. I was loaned one a couple days and really liked it despite how ugly it is.... Of course there's the battery issue, and BEV2 is on the way out.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by RealG

You must be young, I am older and lived through the first muscle car crash. In the early 70s you could not! Give away a muscle car. We were pulling motors out of them and putting them in boats, tractor pullers anything but what they came in because they were worthless. They had discontinued leaded gas in high-octane. The cars were absolutely worthless. After they came out with lead substitutes, harden seats decades later the cars became valuable. This time when they remove gas completely they’re done. That’s why all those 70 muscle cars got chopped up for race cars. You still might be able to race these cars but you won’t be able to afford fuel. Yes it might take 10 years but you’ll be stuck with it. It’ll be like owning a racehorse or expensive art only for the very wealthy

I got my 1969 Z/28 Camaro for $1800 during the energy crisis, drove it thru grad school and sold it for $18000.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by Number 3

So in your thinking is there ever a point when we need to act? Or do you believe man is having ZERO impact on the environment. Because that’s the only question left is how much impact are we having. Not 100% but you can’t believe it’s zero…….or do you?

Here is what I believe, the entire world joining hands could not get rid of the mopeds in any one large country say Vietnam. All these environmental fixes cost money aka have an impact on the environment. Environmental fixes can only work if the stuff is either build in:
1) Noth Pole by elves
2) Space Aliens concerned for us

The size of the human population on planet Earth is the ONLY easily manipulable and directly related variable in the pollution equation.

Oh by the way when you have to go to the extreme of ZERO to prove your point you have lost the debate.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by FlukeSS

Define Irony: $9/gallon to push people to EV. Yet EV cost more than the SS. It is literally not practical or affordable to switch to EV.

I refuse to pay $40,000 for a Tesla. $20,000 to $30,000 sure.

The issue with EV is there is no affordable option to switch even if we weren't a bunch Adrenaline junkies.

No Thanks, I will switch to a charger/mustang before then. And buy a truck for a daily driver that I can mod tf out of.

That is the plan.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by jamala00

I have a 2015 Impala that we bought brand new. All we have done to is is tire rotations and oil changes. Standard maintenance... Not saying that a Tesla doesn't require less of that, but just saying going 3 years with no issues isn't a big deal. Why do you think every auto manufacturer has a warranty for 3 years... (Generally nothing happens in that time frame). I'd like to see what Tesla did if they were the size of any of the big 3. Can you imagine them trying to employee enough techs to do house calls? lol.. They can do that now because they are so small compared to the big 3. How many Fords, GMs, Chrysler's, etc. are out in the world today that need tire rotations or other service that doesn't require a lift? Can you imagine one of them trying to employee enough techs to make house calls as a business model?

I too see it as not easily scalable. There are so many poor countries that are dealing with high energy cost and you will note NONE are fixing the problem with EV.

My experience with hybrids (was on the hypermile Honda HF, HX and TDI boards for decades) is there are batter pack issues at 100k miles there are extensive issues with the electronics and the entire batter pack is toast at 200k for sure. The aftermarket replace cell people do a MARGINAL job and the dealer with the OEM fix, you may as well consider a new EV since Biden will help you buy it.... and yes he will run out of money sooner or later.

My experience with properly maintained IC cars with a properly maintenance auto trans is 250K to 300K before the trans fails and 300K to 400K before something so big breaks on the engine like the cam lobe just wore away.

This is a far cry better than IC engines ever from the 80s. Literally Toyota for example with the same 1.8 L cam over bucket engine that came out in the late 90s are still on the road with over 300K miles. I just did a clutch job for free for a disabled Vet and compression checked has 300K corolla and got 12X on all bores, changed valve cover gasket and inspected chain and cam buckets and thought hum good for another 100 to 300 K cause I see almost NOTHING in terms of wear. IMO most old IC engines fail because the gaskets start leaking and the 3 to 5th owner has no understanding of the need to have and to change the oil. They literally leak themselves to death. For example if the rear main seal was changed on clutch jobs, the average life of the IC would go up 50 to 150 K.

[Hops]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

That is the plan.

pre Bolt fires..... i don't understand why gm hasn't gotten more credit for beating tesla to an affordable (somewhat at ~$32k) EV with good range and isn't too slow. Am i missing something?

[oldman]

Originally Posted by ste1n

This right here perfectly summarizes my Model 3 LR ownership. I traded my '19 2SS for a 2021 Model 3 Long Range back in May. Drove it for 7 months and 14k miles. My Camaro was a riot to drive. It was a 10 speed, had magna ride option and had full Corsa Xtreme exhaust with secondary cat removal (Btw this is for sale if anyone is interested).

As you can imagine it didn't take long for me realize what have I done after trading the Camaro in lol. 2 weeks ago I finally traded Model 3 for a BMW M340i Xdrive. This is my 1st euro car. So far I like it but it is a little bit too quiet for my taste. I have ordered a downpipe and will be ordering some aftermarket exhaust as well in the future.

I tossed around selling my Camaro and Miata for a Z4 (only available in auto) or base Boxster (manual 6 or DCT). I have owned and raced many euro cars, going all the way back to BMW 2000CS, BMW 3.0CS BMW 2002 and then much later to Volvo R. The Oldlady has a Mini S with chip and my bro races Boxsters from mild to wild. All these cars were just incredible driving machines. Far better than my supercharged Challenger, 4th gen Camaro and I going to assume here the 5th gen Camaro. The 6th gen I consider more a sports car like my BMW coupes.

Back to you M340 heck that is one fine machine. The new 2022 facelift is heck of ugly so I hope you don't have that.