[POINTBY]

Heat resistance. That's why carbon brakes work.

And the reason Porsche guys that track their cars a lot remove the carbon disk is due to them costing $5,000 EACH. You can get a complete set of (4) for a Z/28 for $5,000.

Also, you can not evaluate a braking system based solely on 60-0 times.

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

I stand corrected - and will edit the post!

I knew a few didn't allow them, and since I don't know all, I sort of extrapolated.

A dug up a couple of other references that are pertinent, too...

Written in 2014 or '15
http://www.motortrend.com/news/20-be...nces-recorded/

2015 Z06/Z07 (with CCM brakes), at 3533lbs, stopped from 60-0 in....91 feet!!!

...exactly the same as the much heavier ZL1 1LE....just sayin'....

[waterman]

The money shot would have been the shift console.

Major speculation city if there was an auto shifter inside.

[GrimReaperSS]

Im gonna chime is on the CCB brake pricing, just had some fun with this back in fall with my students. I got pricing from the Chevrolet dealer across the street and through my dealer. I will leave it a pads and rotors only, not going to include needed hardware and labor costs. I'll throw in Iron rotors for comparison where I can.

'17 Camaro ZL1 (Iron):
Front pads - 430.50
Front Rotors - 707.70 (each) - 1415.50
Total - 1,846.00
Rear Pads - 157.50
Rear Rotors - 187.95 (each) - 375.90
Total - 533.40
Complete Brake Job - 2,379.40

'17 Z06 (Iron):
Front Pads - 486.15
Front Rotors - 707.70 (each) - 1,415.40
Total - 1,901.55
Rear Pads - 238.35
Rear Rotors - 705.60 (each) - 1,411.20
Total - 1,649.55
Complete Brake Job - 3,551.10
'17 Z06 (CCB):
Front Pads - 1,048.00
Front Rotors - 2,993.00 (each) - 5,986.00
Total - 7,034.00
Rear Pads - 968.00
Rear Rotors - 2,993.00 (each) - 5,986.00
Total - 6,954.00
Complete Brake Job - 13,988.00

'17 Mercedes AMG GT-S (Iron):
Front Pads - 322.00
Front Rotors - 1,050.00 (each) - 2,100.00
Total - 2,422.00
Rear Pads - 124.00
Rear Rotors - 1,120.00 (each) - 2,240.00
Total - 2,364.00
Complete Brake Job - 4,786
'17 Mercedes AMG GT-S (CCB):
Front Pads - 340.00
Front Rotors - 3,540.00 (each) - 7,080.00
Total - 7,420
Rear Pads - 316.00
Rear Rotors - 3,640.00 (each) - 7,280.00
Total - 7,596
Complete Brake Job - 15,016

'17 Porsche GT3 RS (Iron):
Front Pads - 524.83
Front Rotors - 919.81 (each) - 1,839.62
Total - 2,364.45
Rear Pads - 551.27
Rear Rotors - 1,176.82 (each) - 2,353.64
Total - 2,904.91
Complete Brake Job - 5,313.91
'17 Porsche GT3 RS (CCB):
Front Pads - 508.89
Front Rotors - 6,437.01 (each) - 12,874.02
Total - 13,382.91
Rear Pads - 519.54
Rear Rotors - 6,491.36 (each) - 12,982.72
Total - 13,502.26
Complete Brake Job - 26.885.17

'15 Porsche 918 (CCB):
Front Pads - 4,379.74
Front Rotors - 9,040.94 (each) - 18,081.88
Total - 22,461.62
Rear Pads - 4,075.56
Rear Rotors - 8,853.27 (each) - 17,706.54
Total - 21,782.10
Complete Brake Job - 44,243.72

Mercedes SLR (CCB):
Front Pads - 2,860.00
Front Rotors - 24,230.00 (each) - 48,460.00
Total - 51,320
Rear Pads - 1,680.00
Rear Rotors - 22,450 (each) - 44,900.00
Total - 46,580
Complete Brake Job - 97,900

And since engine pricing has also come up here......
Mercedes SLR - 265,250.00
Porsche 918 - 349,250.00
(This is excluding hardware, fluids and labor)

[dgreenberg]

Originally Posted by GrimReaperSS

Im gonna chime is on the CCB brake pricing, just had some fun with this back in fall with my students. I got pricing from the Chevrolet dealer across the street and through my dealer. I will leave it a pads and rotors only, not going to include needed hardware and labor costs. I'll throw in Iron rotors for comparison where I can.



'15 Z06 (Iron):

Front Pads - 201.24

Front Rotors - 171.15 (each) - 342.30

Total - 543.54

'15 Z06 (CCB):

Front Pads - 1,100.40

Front Rotors - 3,142.65 (each) - 6285.30

Total - 7,385.70



'17 Mercedes AMG GT-S (Iron):

Front Pads - 322.00

Front Rotors - 1,050.00 (each) - 2,100.00

Total - 2,422.00

Rear Pads - 124.00

Rear Rotors - 1,120.00 (each) - 2,240.00

Total - 2,364.00

Complete Brake Job - 4,786

'17 Mercedes AMG GT-S (CCB):

Front Pads - 340.00

Front Rotors - 3,540.00 (each) - 7,080.00

Total - 7,420

Rear Pads - 316.00

Rear Rotors - 3,640.00 (each) - 7,280.00

Total - 7,596

Complete Brake Job - 15,016



'17 Porsche GT3 RS (Iron):

Front Pads - 524.83

Front Rotors - 919.81 (each) - 1,839.62

Total - 2,364.45

Rear Pads - 551.27

Rear Rotors - 1,176.82 (each) - 2,353.64

Total - 2,904.91

Complete Brake Job - 5,313.91

'17 Porsche GT3 RS (CCB):

Front Pads - 508.89

Front Rotors - 6,437.01 (each) - 12,874.02

Total - 13,382.91

Rear Pads - 519.54

Rear Rotors - 6,491.36 (each) - 12,982.72

Total - 13,502.26

Complete Brake Job - 26.885.17



'15 Porsche 918 (CCB):

Front Pads - 4,379.74

Front Rotors - 9,040.94 (each) - 18,081.88

Total - 22,461.62

Rear Pads - 4,075.56

Rear Rotors - 8,853.27 (each) - 17,706.54

Total - 21,782.10

Complete Brake Job - 44,243.72



Mercedes SLR (CCB):

Front Pads - 2,860.00

Front Rotors - 24,230.00 (each) - 48,460.00

Total - 51,320

Rear Pads - 1,680.00

Rear Rotors - 22,450 (each) - 44,900.00

Total - 46,580

Complete Brake Job - 97,900



And since engine pricing has also come up here......

Mercedes SLR - 265,250.00

Porsche 918 - 349,250.00

(This is excluding hardware, fluids and labor)

Haha this is great.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[travislambert]

Those numbers are way off from what a reasonable person would actually pay, at least for the Z06.

The factory irons cost significantly more, and the factory CCMs cost significantly less. I just used gmpartsdirect.com for a quick reference.

[GrimReaperSS]

Originally Posted by travislambert

Those numbers are way off from what a reasonable person would actually pay, at least for the Z06.

The factory irons cost significantly more, and the factory CCMs cost significantly less. I just used gmpartsdirect.com for a quick reference.

The prices I listed are from simply walking up to the parts counter and asking for a quote at the dealer. Not using my employee discount etc. I understand that there are plenty of people that would find other avenues for pricing, just trying to keep it easy for comparisons sake. I did think that the pricing for Iron Rotors on the Z06 was odd because I actually asked them to price me a '15 Camaro SS and a '15 Camaro Z/28 as a comparison. Instead he gave me a '12 Camaro SS (Front pads: 486.15, Front Rotors: 612.15 (each) - 1,224.30) and the Z06 prices I listed above. Odd that the SS rotors were quite a bit more than Z06 rotors. Part #'s given for the Z06: Iron - 20981819, Pads - 23271117, CCB: 20981825, Pads: 23316708. Hopefully those match up to your GMPartsDirect #'s. Also, this pricing was from back in October.

[GrimReaperSS]

Ill head back over there tomorrow and see if I can get a new quote on the Z06 and the quote I actually wanted for the SS vs Z/28. If it changes, I'll modify my original post......

[*007]

Sheldon is real!!

[travislambert]

Originally Posted by GrimReaperSS

The prices I listed are from simply walking up to the parts counter and asking for a quote at the dealer. Not using my employee discount etc. I understand that there are plenty of people that would find other avenues for pricing, just trying to keep it easy for comparisons sake. I did think that the pricing for Iron Rotors on the Z06 was odd because I actually asked them to price me a '15 Camaro SS and a '15 Camaro Z/28 as a comparison. Instead he gave me a '12 Camaro SS (Front pads: 486.15, Front Rotors: 612.15 (each) - 1,224.30) and the Z06 prices I listed above. Odd that the SS rotors were quite a bit more than Z06 rotors. Part #'s given for the Z06: Iron - 20981819, Pads - 23271117, CCB: 20981825, Pads: 23316708. Hopefully those match up to your GMPartsDirect #'s. Also, this pricing was from back in October.

I understand, but I question how realistic/useful those numbers would be considering people who track their cars regularly aren't going to pay the ridiculous list prices. The prices from popular dealerships that sell parts online are probably much closer to what someone would realistically pay.

(The #s they gave you for the irons aren't for the Z06 which is why they're so cheap.)

2015 Z06
Iron Rotor (20981823)
List Price: $674.00
Price: $377.44

Pads for Iron Rotors (25940447)
List Price: $463.00
Price: $259.28

Ceramic Rotor (20981825)
List Price: $2,993.00
Price: $1,676.08

Pads for Ceramic Rotors (23316708)
List Price: $1,048.00
Price: $586.88

Full Front Replacement Cost
Iron: $1,014.16
Ceramic: $3,939.04

After doing this comparison, I checked RockAuto.com, and they actually sell the factory ceramic rotors (AC Delco branded of course) for $1,444.79. That'd bring the cost of the full ceramic replacement to $3,476.46.

CCM Brakes are expensive, but for mainstream cars I don't think they're nearly as expensive as some people seemingly want to believe. If these brakes were more common in the Camaro, Corvette, Mustangs, etc., we'd see the cost drop significantly. In the end, they probably wouldn't cost much more than the irons.

[Mr. Wyndham]

You all raise a lot of good points.

I'd like to try The CCM brakes one day...not sure whether or not I'd regret the expense vs a good set of racing pads and iron rotors.

Here's to hoping GM's trying out a Performance Parts Kit on this mule.

[BlackinBlack]

CCM brakes offer no braking performance advantage. If you look at the GM advertised braking distance for the Iron Z06 and the CCM Z06 the braking distance is exactly the same. The "advertised" advantage is that they should wear better than iron brakes. The reason most hard core tracking people switch to iron brakes is that in real world use CCM do not offset the cost by lasting that much longer. In many cases they have delaminating issues on the face of the rotor and have about the same life span but at a much higher cost.

With that being said they do offer one real world advantage. Unsprung weight savings. They are lighter than iron rotors. But for the money set you would be better off running a lighter forged wheel or by stickier track tires that WILL improve grip including braking.

If I was to replace the brakes on my car I would go AP racing irons and cooling ducts. Same as the C7R racecars that run 24 hour races. Also the wear items are much cheaper than the stock CCM.

CCM is a gimic IMHO and looks trick on cars parked at cars in coffee. For a true track rat... iron all the way.

[Ricco]

Originally Posted by BlackinBlack

CCM is a gimic IMHO and looks trick on cars parked at cars in coffee. For a true track rat... iron all the way.

I call BS. If you took price out of the equation, any track junkie would go Carbon Ceramic every single time.

[ninetres]

Some of the above posts gives me hope that some in this group may understand...but prolonged track session, can lead to VERY early delamination and breakdown of the rotor face. Carbon/Carbon brakes handle the heat from real track conditions much better. I feel like CCB are more of a marketing ploy to entice the average enthusiast who thinks they’re extra special.....versus actually offering any real on-track benifit for a fast driver.

GM meetings probably go like this:

“Even though CCB don’t offer our customers any braking advantage on track (and surely not around town)....we can charge $10,000 MORE if we offer them in a package.”

“Done!”

......then customers pull them off the car and shelve them until they sell the car. Or enjoy then on trips to the grocery store. Or at best enjoy them on track days driving the car at 6/10ths what it’s capable of, while generating very low heat levels.

[Ricco]

Originally Posted by ninetres

Some of the above posts gives me hope that some in this group may understand...but prolonged track session, can lead to VERY early delamination and breakdown of the rotor face. Carbon/Carbon brakes handle the heat from real track conditions much better. I feel like CCB are more of a marketing ploy to entice the average enthusiast who thinks they’re extra special.....versus actually offering any real on-track benifit for a fast driver.

GM meetings probably go like this:

“Even though CCB don’t offer our customers any braking advantage on track (and surely not around town)....we can charge $10,000 MORE if we offer them in a package.”

“Done!”

......then customers pull them off the car and shelve them until they sell the car. Or enjoy then on trips to the grocery store. Or at best enjoy them on track days driving the car at 6/10ths what it’s capable of, while generating very low heat levels.

This.