[truth411]

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

.....maybe....maybe not.







Unless Ford gives the 2.3 in the Mustang a larger turbo which will push the peak HP past the peak TQ...I suspect it will make more torque than HP due to the small turbo which makes peak TQ early in the powerband. The 2.3 ecoboost's first application is in the new 2015 Lincoln MKC, where it is rated at 285HP and 305lb of torque. Ford is saying the Mustang will make at least 305...so I figure it will be somewhere around 310 HP and 330lb TQ.

So no matter which way you slice it, GMs new LFX V6 will be at a Torque disadvantage....especially down in the lower rpms. That said...I'm going to bet the LFX will be good for at least 330 HP.

According to the reported "official" Ford specs quoted on the Mustang sites, the new Ecoboost weighs in at over 3,640lbs (3,660 if automatic) . That's no light weight. The new Camaro V6 has a real chance of coming in at around 100 lbs lighter than that, which will help its torque deficit, and if it does end up with a peak HP advantage, the Camaro V6 should be faster on the top end than the Mustang Ecoboost. It just might be playing catch up early on (in say a 1/4 mile drag) , but again, with a weight advantage, it would make the matchup very interesting.

If the Camaro has an 8speed auto, and the Mustang runs a 6....that's another advantage for Camaro.

I think your underestimating Ford's commitment to mainstream models, at the very least the 2.3 turbo will have more than 323hp, also it would not surprise me if Ford offered similar cheap performance boost options similar to the Cobalt SS turbo back in the day.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by Punk_rider

Camaros are like punk bands: awesome at the beginning, starting to sell off a little, then going complete mainstream.

Look A fire Inside, insane punk band at the beginning, then turned emo, then is now a mainstream teenager band.

So does the Camaro ... Happy I have a 2013

So the inclusion of a 2.0T tuned for performance applications suddenly makes Camaro into a mainstream car?

[Frank in MD]

I love the part of the GMIN thread where Z28 guy says if it was speculation, I would have said it was speculation. I've no doubt that he's being sincere but this assumes that someone in the GM hierarchy is the source and that they aren't intentionally throwing out misinformation.

They'd never do that....

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by Frank in MD

I love the part of the GMIN thread where Z28 guy says if it was speculation, I would have said it was speculation. I've no doubt that he's being sincere but this assumes that someone in the GM hierarchy is the source and that they aren't intentionally throwing out misinformation.

They'd never do that....

Well, the LT1 and LT4 are legitimately a given since they are the only LTx engines. The turbo 4 was coming sooner or later. The only thing that isn't a given is the LGX. I guess the LFX could always roll over for the first year or two of the 6th gen.

[GretchenGotGrowl]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

Well, the LT1 and LT4 are legitimately a given since they are the only LTx engines. The turbo 4 was coming sooner or later. The only thing that isn't a given is the LGX. I guess the LFX could always roll over for the first year or two of the 6th gen.

That's what I am thinking. We had the LLT for two years in the 5th gen before they replaced it with the LFX.

[PYROLYSIS]

Originally Posted by GretchenGotGrowl

That's what I am thinking. We had the LLT for two years in the 5th gen before they replaced it with the LFX.

Except the guy with his "sources" says different. I'd be disappointed if they used the LFX.

[SEVEN-OH JOE]

Originally Posted by Jason@JacFab

I'm still holding out for a diesel engine...

Do you remember the "BabyMax" 4.5 diesel that was stillborn by GM a few years' back? Well, one of those with Bosch assistance ended up in a Gen-5 mule.

[SEVEN-OH JOE]

Originally Posted by Frank in MD

I love the part of the GMIN thread where Z28 guy says if it was speculation, I would have said it was speculation. I've no doubt that he's being sincere but this assumes that someone in the GM hierarchy is the source and that they aren't intentionally throwing out misinformation.

They'd never do that....

Chuck's a pretty straight-up guy.

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by truth411

I think your underestimating Ford's commitment to mainstream models, at the very least the 2.3 turbo will have more than 323hp, also it would not surprise me if Ford offered similar cheap performance boost options similar to the Cobalt SS turbo back in the day.

You have your thoughts, I have mine, and I don't think the 2.3 will come in with over 323 HP. TQ?...I think so, but not HP.

If Ford offers a performance tune like GM did, then yes I'd say over 323 HP.

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

Well, the LT1 and LT4 are legitimately a given since they are the only LTx engines. The turbo 4 was coming sooner or later. The only thing that isn't a given is the LGX. I guess the LFX could always roll over for the first year or two of the 6th gen.

Maybe so, but the LGX was also "confirmed" for the 6th gen by the same person in a seperate thread on GMI.

The LGX is also supposed to be going into the ATS next year.

[Frank in MD]

Originally Posted by SEVEN-OH JOE

Chuck's a pretty straight-up guy.

Not doubting any specific person, I'm suggesting that GM is only going to let so much cat out of the bag. It's much like the NFL draft, teams actively engage in putting out misinformation in order to keep the other franchises guessing what they're really going to do. So I personally don't put a whole lot of faith into what the 6 gen will or will not bring until it's on the way to dealers.

[TheNewCzar]

VermontTuning has upgrades to the the ATS 2.0T around 395hp+. I'm sure they'll have upgrades for the Camaro once the 2.0T lands in its engine bay. That would be a nice semi gas efficient option for the Camaro with some nice power.

[Muscle Car Lover]

Just a thought, but seeing how awesome the new key redo is going, anyone else but me think the Gen6 roll out will be delayed while they test all kinds of stuff? Maybe go push button start?

I think any close to intro new model may get pushed back.

[WATCHER]

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

The chasis they are using already exists (Alpha) and already accepts those engines. No added cost that hasn't already been spent.

GOOD POINT! I forgot about that and I've been staring at an ATS Coupe engine bay all day! (4 turbo from Dallas Auto Show). I HAVE heard "noises" from some
magazine wizards saying the 4 turbo in the Cadillac has NVH issues compared to the German competition. How true is this? I'm taking it with a BIG grain of salt since also reading the positive appellations accorded to the ATS Sedan. Any ATS owners please put in your 2 cents.

[WATCHER]

Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369

That's not true at all. You have millions in R&D dollars per platform. You have to engineer an entire new driveline. It doesn't matter that the chassis already exists and accepts those engines. You have a totally different configuration and everything has to be custom-sized and mounted. You're also going to need to design and tune a whole different suspension setup. Then there is the liability of adding a 4 cylinder to a line of carbs that have never had a 4 cylinder motor. The V6's and V8's are known sellers, and the I-4's will have to be subsidized through then. Expect the V6 and V8 costs to increase in order to pay for the I-4's debut.

The cheapest way to make the Camaro is to make one car with no options. Want a cheap Camaro? Every single Camaro is a black 2SS with a manual transmission. Prices would fall, or GM could sell them for the same price but at a much higher margin. This is why Ford initially only made black cars - just the availability of the options costs money because you have all that R&D into something that may or may not even sell.

The purpose of the common platform is to preclude just what you suggest. The V8 is what needs "special" consideration and Cadillac may have already rendered that moot. (ATS-V ??? MAYBE?) The ATS coupe already has the turbo 4 and v6. Do you think the move to Lansing was made last year? All of these things were decided long ago.