[JimmyDeanSausage]

Originally Posted by G8GT4now

Lets just wait and see how many GT500s and ZL1s are sold in the next few years as gas prices rise and CAFE standards start getting tougher and tougher to comply with.

You know the GT500 gets significantly better gas mileage than the ZL1, right?

[garcmol]

Originally Posted by JimmyDeanSausage

Lol, which ZL1 already has 20,000 miles on it?

Every car HAS had mechanical track day issues covered on it, it depends on the issue and the dealership. The question is if it will always be covered (it won't) or if it'll be covered more frequently than the competition (who knows, but I wouldn't count on it).

No ZL1 has 20k on it. But then the 5y/100k is nothing new either, well for GM that is.

Originally Posted by JimmyDeanSausage

You know the GT500 gets significantly better gas mileage than the ZL1, right?

Do folks still care about mileage that buy supercharged cars? In either camp?

[tooslow]

Originally Posted by Bad@ssCamaro

That's the answer I was expecting from you, Just BS excuses. What you drive DOES have a bearing on your opinion BECAUSE its your opinion that bought the vehicle and thus represents to some degree what you believe in. People do judge you on vehicles, But just to clue you in on something, THIS IS A CAMARO FORUM, people appreciate other people MORE that have the same vehicle from the same manufacturer.

We are all here to seek approval and validation in certain regards. It's very noble on your part that you choose not to follow the pattern but your going to catch heck for it too. Fbodfather himself stated that he was weary of those people on this forum who did not list their vehicles and where they lived and it makes perfect sense.

You fit the mold of those weary people, that's why you get crap about it. I've seen others get on you about being a troll too because of that because they do not know where you stand. So I say yes, It is important to list your vehicle to let others know what you drive and what part of the country you live in. If you don't you got something to hide, thus you lose a little thing called credibility. Comprendez?

And 3 cars in three years? that's rough but you should always list your current one. Look at mine see, I'm not afraid to post what I got, And nobody has said boo about it, ya know why? Nobody's ever accused me of trolling (at least not yet)

OOOOhh, ok, I just caught something in your post...you do not have allegiance to any manufacturer, aaahhhh, there lies your problem, you don't know which side of the fence you belong on.

I think the term was "wary", not "weary". I grow weary of this conversation.

[G8GT4now]

Originally Posted by JimmyDeanSausage

You know the GT500 gets significantly better gas mileage than the ZL1, right?

Sure do, but will GM do anything about it for 2013? Probably not since they are rolling out the new platform in 2014 which is lighter weight and will use direct injected engines.

[tooslow]

Originally Posted by motorhead

I know your post wasn't directed to me ,but I have to ask.
Which car out of my 20 some cars should I list that will make people want to communicate with me? I own all three US makes young and old ,and frankly I don't think it would matter which one of them I post as driving.

LOL, 20! And I though 4 was pushing it. My garage is not that big! I guess, based on the opinion of some, you should list a Camaro, otherwise, anything you say will lack credibility.

[90503]

Originally Posted by 9c1ny

I am a direhard GM guy and was so excited at the inception of the 5th gen, now 3 years later I am left feeling disappointed..............
I remember when I bought my '10 SS back in may 2009 I was so excited, there was little to no real world data on them and I had high hopes.
I remember the realization sinking in of under performing L99s and the fact that the 5th gen really was no faster than the 4th gen.
Magazine tests at the time favored the 2010 Mustang GT with the track pack, then the 2011 5.0 came out and the 5 gen was playing second fiddle.
GM did nothing to answer ford, not even a dealer add on package.
Now after 3 years of Z28 talk we have the ZL1 which fbodfather and Al O. talked about like it was the second coming, the numbers are in and again its second fiddle...................
The 13' GT500 numbers are in and its trapping 129mph! The ZL1 has yet to trap 120mph
I am willing to bet after all this talk of track times that the GT500 will dominate there too :(
Everyones still in denial hoping its still in "break in" mode , the reality is the GT500 is a superior car, superior to the point its taking aim at GMs flagship sports car , it could care less about the Camaro, it already has the GT and Boss to beat it...............
For decades the Camaro was superior to the Mustang, whats happened GM???
I understand performance is a small part of cars and the average joe cares more about cup holders than quarter miles but to people like myself this is heartbreaking.
The Camaro is no longer about the horsepower and performance it once was (I understand the current gen is the most powerful Camaro ever, speaking in relative terms) , its a novelty

Just thought I'd put this up as a refresher...lol....But after reading all the thread, I just don't think its fair to "bash" GM over the Camaro/Mustang thing. It's not GM's fault that Ford chose not to directly compete with the Vette, and are using the Mustang as their top performance car that may out-do the Camaro from time to time...my $.02

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by tooslow

LOL, 20! And I though 4 was pushing it. My garage is not that big! I guess, based on the opinion of some, you should list a Camaro, otherwise, anything you say will lack credibility.

That's counting some work trucks all of which are GM products. Still, I have a lot of toys and the new ones seem to change so often. That's why I figured whats the point.

If everyone on here is expected to drive a camaro than why even have an option to list what you drive. I had a camaro. It's gone now. Does that mean I need to leave now? I enjoy this site more than the mopar and ford sites that I've come across.

I wonder how many people we have on here that list owning a camaro ,but don't.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by 2001ragtop

Keep in mind that 99.999999 percent of society are not muscle-car enthusiasts and they view these forums as very strange and obnoxious.

Oh how true.

[ParisTNDude]

Originally Posted by MauriSSio

What are you talking about? F-bodies had the same 345hp ls1s as the vettes since 1998, way before the z06 came out

You might want to stick with Ford facts...you're not doing well with Chevys. The 4th Gen Camaro Z28 was introduced with the LT1 SB at 275 HP, then 285 and later some were modified by SLP in 1997 with 330 HP with the old SB chevy engine. In 1998 Chevy introduced the LS1 engine in the Camaro at 305 HP. In 2001 the Z28 Camaro got 310 and the SS got 325 HP. In 2001 SLP (aftermarket) offered SLP Camaros through dealerships with 345 HP with a few bolt ons. The 1993 Base Corvette had 300 HP and the 1997 Corvette was introduced with 345 HP and increased that to 350 in 2001. Corvette introduced the Z06 LS6 engine with 385 in 2001 and that was increased to 405 in 2002. There was never a time when the 4th gen Camaro matched any Corvette in HP from the factory. If I have my facts wrong, please point me to the correct information from a reliable source.

[MauriSSio]

Originally Posted by ParisTNDude

You might want to stick with Ford facts...you're not doing well with Chevys. The 4th Gen Camaro Z28 was introduced with the LT1 SB at 275 HP, then 285 and later some were modified by SLP in 1997 with 330 HP with the old SB chevy engine. In 1998 Chevy introduced the LS1 engine in the Camaro at 305 HP. In 2001 the Z28 Camaro got 310 and the SS got 325 HP. In 2001 SLP (aftermarket) offered SLP Camaros through dealerships with 345 HP with a few bolt ons. The 1993 Base Corvette had 300 HP and the 1997 Corvette was introduced with 345 HP and increased that to 350 in 2001. Corvette introduced the Z06 LS6 engine with 385 in 2001 and that was increased to 405 in 2002. There was never a time when the 4th gen Camaro matched any Corvette in HP from the factory. If I have my facts wrong, please point me to the correct information from a reliable source.

what they were rated at and what they actually produced are two different things. I used to own an LS1 Camaro. Go ahead and look up cam specs, headflow numbers and part numbers. Welcome to 1998, wow that info has been out since forever too.

The LT1 in the vette was the same as the F-body as well except for the intake elbow.

I hope you learned something.

[Dr Jkel]

Yes...Here I am the Loyal GM Fanboy, Loyalist or whatever you want to call it and this subject always intrigues me so I thought I would post a little.

The National Speed Limit on the highway is 70mph on the interstate........So you really can't open up ANY performance car you buy unless you move to Germany.......SO the statement comes that I want to drag it at the track.....Well OK

If you want to drag a car it seems to me that the whole idea of drag racing is power to weight ratio so why would you buy a production made car to drag taht has leather interior, A/C, XM radio, Power Windows etc?

Seems to me the best way would be to build your car from scratch.

There is one addage that has stood the test of time when it comes to racing .Period. No matter what kind and that is " How fast can you AFFORD to go?" There is always someone out there who has more money, more freedom, more resources, more everything.

I bought my Camaro sight unseen and it arrived 7/1/09, yes I was a pre-order. I have loved that car everday it has sat in my garage.....Who cares if someone can out race you on the street? Does it matter? If you truly want to race get a real race car.......and expect to be broke.........My friend has a RACE Car that does 4.4 in the 1/8...it takes 20.00 worth of fuel each pass....Not my idea of fun but to each his own.

I understand that all Camaro owners want the Camaro to beat every Mustang they see...I get that but I go slow so EVERYONE can see me and I always leave them wondering exactly what my car will do.

I have electric cutouts and a cam so it sounds like a total beast...If you have ever saw a twisted car from a racr gone wrong then you will quickly see it is not real important...Otherwise be Like Darth Emma and build you a race car. JMHO

[ParisTNDude]

Originally Posted by MauriSSio

what they were rated at and what they actually produced are two different things. I used to own an LS1 Camaro. Go ahead and look up cam specs, headflow numbers and part numbers. Welcome to 1998, wow that info has been out since forever too.

The LT1 in the vette was the same as the F-body as well except for the intake elbow.

I hope you learned something.

You're making it very clear that a person can never debate Ford vs Chevy in an intelligent, factual manner with Ford guys. The engines in basic design were in fact the same, but with different and real HP ratings...so, you're right...have a great Ford day.

[Rabamaro]

Originally Posted by Butcher

The GT500 and ZL1 have the same base price. However, there is no gas guzzler tax on the GT500. So if you pay sticker price, the GT500 is cheaper.

Last I heard, GT500s were selling at 64-65k while ZL1s were going for 55k?

[SVT Murrocket]

Originally Posted by stieger

For a GM man that was quite the blue oval fanboy rant.

Also, let's not forget something. The mustang is both Ford's Camaro and their corvette.

No its not. It's just the top of the line performance model with 4 seats that just so happens to be quicker than any stock Camaro and many / most stock Vetts...