[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by shaffe

All valid points. I think to counter the weight, they are going to throw more power at it. I think that is what will help them beat it straightline and keep it close/similar/possibly beat it in the twistys. And I think they will find a way to have it at a similar price point. probably will be a bit higher, but I just don't see a base GT500 starting at Z1LE prices.

And this debate is all in good fun gents

Helping pass the time during slow season at the office.

Look to the SS 1LE vs ZL1 lap times for your answer on that one. Power doesn't make as big as difference on the average track. But it could be enough to edge out.

Yea if they do packages, I could see them trying to split the H/C and ZL1 base prices. It would be faster than both in the 1/4, which would be a big win. The price to improve the handling will be the big unknown.

Same here!

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

So I didn't read Z/28 vs GT350R comparisons by the magazines?

Seems like they hadn't moved on.

Didn't Ford build a limited number (137) of 2015 GT350s beginning at the same time the Z/28 production stopped? 37 Rs?

Motor Trend's Z/28 vs GT350R was released on December 14, 2015. The new 2016 Camaros were already on the street and the number one on the SS fast list is even dated December 15, 2015.

So yeah. Ford aimed at a car that was already gone

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

Look to the SS 1LE vs ZL1 lap times for your answer on that one. Power doesn't make as big as difference on the average track. But it could be enough to edge out.

Yea if they do packages, I could see them trying to split the H/C and ZL1 base prices. It would be faster than both in the 1/4, which would be a big win. The price to improve the handling will be the big unknown.

Same here!

Another valid point there, the 13 GT500 had to have extra power to make up for its handling weaknesses. I think with Magneride, and extra power the future GT500 might have enough to be on the same level as the ZL1. Notice I said same level lol, I am expecting them to be close but with a handling edge probably to the ZL1 still due to the alpha chassis. But I expect them to be close enough to where it's not a wooping

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Didn't Ford build a limited number (137) of 2015 GT350s beginning at the same time the Z/28 production stopped? 37 Rs?

Motor Trend's Z/28 vs GT350R was released on December 14, 2015. The new 2016 Camaros were already on the street and the number one on the SS fast list is even dated December 15, 2015.

So yeah. Ford aimed at a car that was already gone

Yes yes they did. Why who knows, I think it was pretty much just bragging rights. Oh you built a N/A track car that everyone loves, we can do it too.

Pretty much just wanted to see whose **** was bigger lol

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Can't tell if serious or sarcasm lol

No sarcasm, your points were very valid and I don't have any reason to disagree. I think we all know some guessing and opinions are thrown in to our reasons that we also support with some facts etc. I think we all have some good reasons for believing what we do, and being open minded is always good in my view.

Okay, lets get back to disagreeing, its more fun HAHAHA

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

No sarcasm, your points were very valid and I don't have any reason to disagree. I think we all know some guessing and opinions are thrown in to our reasons that we also support with some facts etc. I think we all have some good reasons for believing what we do, and being open minded is always good in my view.

Okay, lets get back to disagreeing, its more fun HAHAHA

Where's BlaqWhole lol he usually can find something to disagree with me on!

Like I said I could be way off base, but I just don't see any way base GT500 comes in at Z1LE prices. I think Ford knows its going to have to be able to go toe to toe with the ZL1 in all areas for a similar price.

Z1LE, I just don't think Ford will be able to chase that one though.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Where's BlaqWhole lol he usually can find something to disagree with me on!

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Originally Posted by shaffe

Like I said I could be way off base, but I just don't see any way base GT500 comes in at Z1LE prices. I think Ford knows its going to have to be able to go toe to toe with the ZL1 in all areas for a similar price.

Z1LE, I just don't think Ford will be able to chase that one though.

Exactly, and I could be way off too. I think you do have some good reasons supporting your opinions, and I like to think i do too HAHAHA, but I too could be way off base.

Now that I start to think of them taking the package approach like the GT350 as people have mentioned, I do think we could see a base GT500 for less than $70K all day long. I was not thinking of it that way, and the $70K was for a all around GT500, track and strip beast. A GT500 that could beat the ZL1 on the track, I could see that car coming in at $12K more than a base GT350, which would put it at $70K.

[SSfriendly]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Where's BlaqWhole lol he usually can find something to disagree with me on!

Like I said I could be way off base, but I just don't see any way base GT500 comes in at Z1LE prices. I think Ford knows its going to have to be able to go toe to toe with the ZL1 in all areas for a similar price.

Z1LE, I just don't think Ford will be able to chase that one though.

Simply changing out from the carbon fiber to a cast or forged wheel would save $10k-$15k in production costs compared to the GT350R.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Where's BlaqWhole lol he usually can find something to disagree with me on!

Actually, I think you're pretty much on point, lol!! I mean, not with the whole disagreement thing. But with everything you're saying about the GT500 being on par with the ZL1. I honestly have nothing bad to say about the GT500. I have a lot of respect for it. I certainly think Ford could build one to beat the ZL1. They have done it before. I think the game has changed a bit since the 5th Gen ZL1 and S197 GT500. But I think Ford will have lots of room to play with since they're ditching that stupid FPC and if they get rid of those rims. Then they can invest in throwing some options in the car, giving it better suspension components, and a killer engine/trans/brakes package. And I think they can simply make it better than the ZL1 and ZL1 1LE in a straight line, make it better than the ZL1 in cornering while not being as good as the ZL1 1LE (they really don't have to be if they can beat the standard ZL1 since it handles damn well anyway), and come in somewhere between the two in price. On top of that a stock tire Hellcat won't be able to beat it in a straight line...and they can give it an engine that beats the standard Hellcat in hp/tq. If they can keep the dealerships from marking it the hell up, and if people simply hold out and refuse to pay ADMs, then I think we'll have a GT500 that'll be a killer deal all around.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Actually, I think you're pretty much on point, lol!! I mean, not with the whole disagreement thing. But with everything you're saying about the GT500 being on par with the ZL1. I honestly have nothing bad to say about the GT500. I have a lot of respect for it. I certainly think Ford could build one to beat the ZL1. They have done it before. I think the game has changed a bit since the 5th Gen ZL1 and S197 GT500. But I think Ford will have lots of room to play with since they're ditching that stupid FPC and if they get rid of those rims. Then they can invest in throwing some options in the car, giving it better suspension components, and a killer engine/trans/brakes package. And I think they can simply make it better than the ZL1 and ZL1 1LE in a straight line, make it better than the ZL1 in cornering while not being as good as the ZL1 1LE (they really don't have to be if they can beat the standard ZL1 since it handles damn well anyway), and come in somewhere between the two in price. On top of that a stock tire Hellcat won't be able to beat it in a straight line...and they can give it an engine that beats the standard Hellcat in hp/tq. If they can keep the dealerships from marking it the hell up, and if people simply hold out and refuse to pay ADMs, then I think we'll have a GT500 that'll be a killer deal all around.

Well damn, end thread then I guess. You pretty much nailed it I think. HAHAHAHA

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

Simply changing out from the carbon fiber to a cast or forged wheel would save $10k-$15k in production costs compared to the GT350R.

I don't think the wheels cost Ford that much. Isn't that basically the MSRP difference between the R and non-R?

I get where you're going though, and I agree. Believe that's where Blaqwhole is going too. Ditch the damn CF wheels, save the buyer a ton of money and bring in the GT500 at a very competitive price to the ZL1, and everyone and their mom would want to buy one. BOOM!

[SSfriendly]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

I don't think the wheels cost Ford that much. Isn't that basically the MSRP difference between the R and non-R?

I get where you're going though, and I agree. Believe that's where Blaqwhole is going too. Ditch the damn CF wheels, save the buyer a ton of money and bring in the GT500 at a very competitive price to the ZL1, and everyone and their mom would want to buy one. BOOM!

Yep...except Ford will limit production again and dealers ARE going to throw a stupid high admin on them, book it.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Actually, I think you're pretty much on point, lol!! I mean, not with the whole disagreement thing. But with everything you're saying about the GT500 being on par with the ZL1. I honestly have nothing bad to say about the GT500. I have a lot of respect for it. I certainly think Ford could build one to beat the ZL1. They have done it before. I think the game has changed a bit since the 5th Gen ZL1 and S197 GT500. But I think Ford will have lots of room to play with since they're ditching that stupid FPC and if they get rid of those rims. Then they can invest in throwing some options in the car, giving it better suspension components, and a killer engine/trans/brakes package. And I think they can simply make it better than the ZL1 and ZL1 1LE in a straight line, make it better than the ZL1 in cornering while not being as good as the ZL1 1LE (they really don't have to be if they can beat the standard ZL1 since it handles damn well anyway), and come in somewhere between the two in price. On top of that a stock tire Hellcat won't be able to beat it in a straight line...and they can give it an engine that beats the standard Hellcat in hp/tq. If they can keep the dealerships from marking it the hell up, and if people simply hold out and refuse to pay ADMs, then I think we'll have a GT500 that'll be a killer deal all around.

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

Yep...except Ford will limit production again and dealers ARE going to throw a stupid high admin on them, book it.

Well the R is a bit more limited than the Z1LE, but hopefully they just build them. The 350 (non R) really isn't that limited if you look at the build numbers compared to the ZL1. That is why i don't get the ADM still being high. I can see for the first one to hit lots, but it should fall off after that.

I also have a theory part of it just has to do with the Shelby name and people thinking it's more rare. IMO it's time to ditch the Shelby branding and go back to Cobra.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

Yep...except Ford will limit production again and dealers ARE going to throw a stupid high admin on them, book it.

I doubt they will get away with ADMs this time around. Mainly because there is just too much competition.