[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

Battery disposal is another concern with hybrid and electric cars.

There are entire landfills devoted to nothing but hybrid car battery disposal. As they decay, which they do, they're insanely terrible for the surrounding environment.

I personally would rather see hydrogen take over.

Agreed but hydrogen production is mainly a product of fossil fuels right now due to cost. Battery tech and clean, low cost hydrogen production are the most important areas right now for long term research.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

You can't predict what cars are going to become instant classics and what cars will not..drive it as much as you like and do what you want to it.

True but I personally don't think cars like the Camaro SS/ Mustang GT/Challenger RT will be "collectors items" in the future.

At least not the way the classics have. Part of what makes the classics valuable is the way people could pick and choose options at will some builds were super rare. Hell when my dad ordered his 1969 442 W30, he got it in a color that was not even offered on the 442, it was only on the Toronado. You can't do stuff like that anymore, you rarely will see a car that is 1 of 90 built in this color with this engine/options/transmission. That to me is what has helped make the classics big dollar cars.

Topic at hand, yes the CAFE rules are strict. This is why the cars most of us don't care about, Cruze Malibu Volt need to succeed lol.

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by shaffe

True but I personally don't think cars like the Camaro SS/ Mustang GT/Challenger RT will be "collectors items" in the future.

At least not the way the classics have. Part of what makes the classics valuable is the way people could pick and choose options at will some builds were super rare. Hell when my dad ordered his 1969 442 W30, he got it in a color that was not even offered on the 442, it was only on the Toronado. You can't do stuff like that anymore, you rarely will see a car that is 1 of 90 built in this color with this engine/options/transmission. That to me is what has helped make the classics big dollar cars.

Topic at hand, yes the CAFE rules are strict. This is why the cars most of us don't care about, Cruze Malibu Volt need to succeed lol.

Another part of the reason the classic muscle cars had their values spike was the fact that everything was reaching a fever pitch..and then seemingly vanished overnight and replaced with shadows of what they were.
You had some bright spots in the early to mid 70's, the Boss 351, the 455 TA..but for all intents and purposes...71 was the end.

[SSport16]

Originally Posted by MMC

The media wrote off V8's back in the eighties but here we are, and it's not just about mileage but with less fuel burned you get reduced emission's. Electric vehicles have great performance, but the problem with electric vehicles is where do you get the electricity from, coal?

Lol...I have that same argument all the time with people who try and push electric cars....umm it comes from fossil fuels! lol.

[SSport16]

Originally Posted by kcpoloman

Pretty much all the government does is overreach. Instead of enforcing the laws to protect the people they want to be an all powerful force that dictates every aspect of your whole life.

Exactly!

[SSport16]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

While it's not "clean"...electricity production and consumption in vehicles is cleaner than drilling for and refining oil, and then proceeding to burn it in vehicles.

Electric vehicles are also more efficient at converting the electrical energy into mechanical motion than internal combustion engines are at converting the chemical reactions of combustion into mechanical motion

The bigger issue (right now) with electric vehicles is power storage....battery tech is MUCH improved...but people won't be very interested until range is up in the 4-500 mi. range...and even then, the question becomes: what do you do on a longer-than-that road trip?

And also the safety of those huge batteries in cars factor in that most people tend to ignore.

[Sledgehammer70]

Originally Posted by DMC75

I think the way they are going to hi the averages is by increasing the MPG of the "gas guzzlers" slightly (with AFM and the like), combined with the introduction and increased footprint of the Volt/Bolt/"E-Next" cars. i think the increase in market share of the EV's is going to ramp up quickly over the next few years. But having said all of that, 54.8 by 2020 is going to be a challenge. I think the big problem is the charging infrastructure and how long it takes... even if its 30 minutes for a full charge, that is still about 6 times the amount of time it takes to fill my tank.

I agree... these auto makers are going to slim down their upper level cars with massive motors and belt out more EV cars and diesel motors with even better range to balance their portfolios. It's going to be a trick, but the fact our 2016 V8 455HP SS's get 23-28MPG is impressive. I can see them fine tuning and getting into the 30's fairly easily and be able to keep their big V8 for a little while longer.

But there will come a time where V8's NA are gone. I am holding on to this car for a long time to come.

[SSport16]

I agree! These cars will be a thing of the past in the not so far future unfortunately...just a shame really, no need for it!

[ChocoTaco369]

Originally Posted by DenverTaco07

Plug in electric cars.

what's their MPG...100000000?

EV's actually get worse mileage than higher efficiency ICE cars like a Honda Civic. The electricity grid is so incredibly inefficient - you lose nearly 80% of the initial power between generation losses, transmission and distribution losses and charging inefficiencies. Natural gas turbines, for example, are only around 35% efficient. Yes, two thirds of the fuel is lost to heat at the turbine before it even begins transmission to your home.

Hybrids are a much better solution. I would not be surprised to see the market move toward natural gas powered engines. EV's will probably never outgrow a niche market unless the government artificially forces it.

[SSport16]

Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369

EV's actually get worse mileage than higher efficiency ICE cars like a Honda Civic. The electricity grid is so incredibly inefficient - you lose nearly 80% of the initial power between generation losses, transmission and distribution losses and charging inefficiencies. Natural gas turbines, for example, are only around 35% efficient. Yes, two thirds of the fuel is lost to heat at the turbine before it even begins transmission to your home.

Hybrids are a much better solution. I would not be surprised to see the market move toward natural gas powered engines. EV's will probably never outgrow a niche market unless the government artificially forces it.

No NG cars for me! Compressed NG bottled in a tank is like a bomb in your car, so much more volatile than gasoline. I love NG, but not a good idea bottled up in a car, especially if someone were to slam into your car in an accident.

[DMC75]

Originally Posted by Sledgehammer70

I agree... these auto makers are going to slim down their upper level cars with massive motors and belt out more EV cars and diesel motors with even better range to balance their portfolios. It's going to be a trick, but the fact our 2016 V8 455HP SS's get 23-28MPG is impressive. I can see them fine tuning and getting into the 30's fairly easily and be able to keep their big V8 for a little while longer.

But there will come a time where V8's NA are gone. I am holding on to this car for a long time to come.

Yeah, I agree... I think the long term future of cars is likely the Porsche 918 model... Just gotta wait for it to trickle down to the mass production arena. The only way they are going to completely eliminate ICE's are to DRASTICALLY improve battery technology (like twice the current range with half the required battery weight).

As prices for low cost materials (like carbon fiber) come down, cars can become lighter, but the government will find a way to mandate something else be added to cars, offsetting the weight savings. Like the way they have mandated that 100% of cars will require backup cameras by 2018. Not that backup cameras require a large weight increase, but the government should just keep their damn hands out of things. We survived over 100 years of automobiles without backup cameras, now suddenly it is a must have safety feature.

Gonna miss the big loud snorting Pushrod V8.

[DMC75]

Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369

EV's actually get worse mileage than higher efficiency ICE cars like a Honda Civic. The electricity grid is so incredibly inefficient - you lose nearly 80% of the initial power between generation losses, transmission and distribution losses and charging inefficiencies. Natural gas turbines, for example, are only around 35% efficient. Yes, two thirds of the fuel is lost to heat at the turbine before it even begins transmission to your home.

Hybrids are a much better solution. I would not be surprised to see the market move toward natural gas powered engines. EV's will probably never outgrow a niche market unless the government artificially forces it.

THANK YOU!!! So many people are under the impression that if it isn't coming out of your tailpipe, it isn't polluting...

Unless its coming from a solar power source, its polluting something, and solar cells are not nearly as efficient as they need to be in order to make a dent in the total energy demand.

I was in Pittsburgh last year and saw that all Taxi cabs (or at least all the ones I was in) run on natural gas. The actual risk of combustion on a NG tanks are VERY low, (overall probably lower than a gasoline tank because in the event of a rupture, the NG just escapes into the air rather than spill all over the road) so it isn't a safety issue I just don't know how the end to end efficiency compares to Gasoline.

[ChocoTaco369]

Originally Posted by DMC75

THANK YOU!!! So many people are under the impression that if it isn't coming out of your tailpipe, it isn't polluting...

Unless its coming from a solar power source, its polluting something, and solar cells are not nearly as efficient as they need to be in order to make a dent in the total energy demand.

I was in Pittsburgh last year and saw that all Taxi cabs (or at least all the ones I was in) run on natural gas. The actual risk of combustion on a NG tanks are VERY low, (overall probably lower than a gasoline tank because in the event of a rupture, the NG just escapes into the air rather than spill all over the road) so it isn't a safety issue I just don't know how the end to end efficiency compares to Gasoline.

Ironically, in many states, EV's are "coal-powered vehicles" truthfully. It is a pretty big scam. Out of sight, out of mind I guess. We won't even get into the gigantic environmental disaster that is mining and manufacturing lithium for batteries. Nickel is just as bad.

[DMC75]

Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369

Ironically, in many states, EV's are "coal-powered vehicles" truthfully. It is a pretty big scam. Out of sight, out of mind I guess. We won't even get into the gigantic environmental disaster that is mining and manufacturing lithium for batteries. Nickel is just as bad.

...And disposal of spent batteries.

And all of this is just to reduce emissions... I remember reading somewhere that about 75% of the total environmental impact of an automobile revolves around production and disposal as opposed to emissions. cant remember the source, and it the percentage may be off, but i remember being shocked.