[obzidian]

Would you say the gt pp is much closer to the 1ss?

[VF-22]

Originally Posted by obzidian

Would you say the gt pp is much closer to the 1ss?

I would say the GT/PP is much closer to the SS.

Lets not use 1SS/2SS because the difference between them is just luxury/creature comforts. As overall/performance/mechanical they are the same.

the GT/PP adds ($2,495 package). When you factor this in, the GT is much closer in price to the SS Camaro. $4000 quickly becomes $1500 difference.

• 19" X 9"(F) 19" X 9.5" (R) Ebony Black Painted Aluminum
Wheel
• 255/40R19 (F) 275/40R19 (R) Summer Only Tires1
• Brembo™ Six-Piston Front Brake Calipers with Larger Rotors
• “Engine Turn” Aluminum Instrument Panel Appliques
• Gauge Pack (Oil Pressure and Vacuum)
• Heavy-duty Front Springs
• K-Brace
• Larger Radiator
• Spoiler Delete
• Strut-tower Brace
• TORSEN® Differential with 3.73 Axle Ratio
• Unique Chassis Tuning
• Unique Stability Control, EPAS and ABS Tuning
• Upsized Rear Sway Bar

Lots of this is included in the SS already.

SS has on it already

• Wheels, 20" x 8.5" (50.8 cm x 21.6 cm) front and 20" x 9.5" (50.8 cm x 24.1 cm) rear bright 5-spoke Silver-painted aluminum
• Tires, 245/40ZR20 front and 275/35ZR20 rear, blackwall, summer-only, run-flat
• Brakes, Brembo 4-piston front and rear, performance, 4-wheel antilock, 4-wheel disc
• Suspension, Performance
• Rear axle, 3.73 ratio
• Cooling, external engine oil cooler, Cooling system, extra capacity,Cooler, engine coolant, auxiliary
• Bracing. I can't speak to all the parts on the Camaro/Mustang. But obviously the SS has a ton of it built it and the Mustang has to add it via the PP.

[GMGP5X]

Originally Posted by VF-22

I would say the GT/PP is much closer to the SS.

Lets not use 1SS/2SS because the difference between them is just luxury/creature comforts. As overall/performance/mechanical they are the same.

the GT/PP adds ($2,495 package). When you factor this in, the GT is much closer in price to the SS Camaro. $4000 quickly becomes $1500 difference.

• 19" X 9"(F) 19" X 9.5" (R) Ebony Black Painted Aluminum
Wheel
• 255/40R19 (F) 275/40R19 (R) Summer Only Tires1
• Brembo™ Six-Piston Front Brake Calipers with Larger Rotors
• “Engine Turn” Aluminum Instrument Panel Appliques
• Gauge Pack (Oil Pressure and Vacuum)
• Heavy-duty Front Springs
• K-Brace
• Larger Radiator
• Spoiler Delete
• Strut-tower Brace
• TORSEN® Differential with 3.73 Axle Ratio
• Unique Chassis Tuning
• Unique Stability Control, EPAS and ABS Tuning
• Upsized Rear Sway Bar

Lots of this is included in the SS already.

SS has on it already

• Wheels, 20" x 8.5" (50.8 cm x 21.6 cm) front and 20" x 9.5" (50.8 cm x 24.1 cm) rear bright 5-spoke Silver-painted aluminum
• Tires, 245/40ZR20 front and 275/35ZR20 rear, blackwall, summer-only, run-flat
• Brakes, Brembo 4-piston front and rear, performance, 4-wheel antilock, 4-wheel disc
• Suspension, Performance
• Rear axle, 3.73 ratio
• Cooling, external engine oil cooler, Cooling system, extra capacity,Cooler, engine coolant, auxiliary
• Bracing. I can't speak to all the parts on the Camaro/Mustang. But obviously the SS has a ton of it built it and the Mustang has to add it via the PP.

Rear end cooler for the SS also. Correct?

[VF-22]

Originally Posted by GMGP5X

Rear end cooler for the SS also. Correct?

Yah I didnt paste all of it...

Cooler, rear differential
Cooler, transmission oil

Just saying the GT needs to add the PP to get what the SS has standard.

http://www.gmfleetorderguide.com/NAS...page=6&butID=3

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by VF-22

I think it has to do with the Auto owning the GT/PP if it had it. Ford still caters to the manual fanboys in America so they only offered it in the manual. In Europe the GT Auto gets the PP. I also think they are holding it over for another new 'option'.

8 speed is far enough for an auto IMO. I think Ford was dumb for not offering an 8 speed in the '15 Mustang. They are far behind the times. Ford seems to updated every few years where they only put so much out.

Actually the SS gets more then just coolers. Talking GT without PP here vs SS.

SS has 3.73 RAR vs the GT that has 3.15s (auto) or 3.33s (Manual). Thats an upgrade for $400 for 3.55s or you have to get the PP for 3.73.

SS gets 20" wheels and staggered set up. GT has 18" wheels without upgrade

SS has run flat Summer tires. GT has all seasons.

Also the SS gets a performance /track suspension where the GT has a sports one (similar to LT on V6).

So the GT needs a lot more on it to make it similar to the 1SS/2SS.

Ah so it was just a US market issue, bad move. Definitely helped me mark the GT off my list.

Yea Ford was behind with auto trans development, hence the need to work together with GM. GM gets to split development cost and Ford gets help getting up to speed. Win win for both.

I don't really think the gearing is an upgrade. Gearing choices have more to do with FE/Performance and then ultimately choice of wheels and tires. Also note the A8 SS is geared lower than the Challenger/Charger.

The 5th gen had 20" wheels to, so again not really a performance upgrade as much as style. You can be sure the 20's weigh more than the 19's Ford is using on the PP.

The 6th gen 1SS will not be as firm as the outgoing 1LE. You wouldn't want the base suspension too firm otherwise you might turn away buyers. Most of the suspension for the SS was designed to save weight, so that's what you are paying for. Maybe some would be happier with a heavier car, but Team Camaro was not as that was chief among the complaints.

Again, the price difference has more to do with weight savings and more standard features than anything. Probably less than $1k for the additional cooling features.

[VF-22]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

Ah so it was just a US market issue, bad move. Definitely helped me mark the GT off my list.

Yea Ford was behind with auto trans development, hence the need to work together with GM. GM gets to split development cost and Ford gets help getting up to speed. Win win for both.

I don't really think the gearing is an upgrade. Gearing choices have more to do with FE/Performance and then ultimately choice of wheels and tires. Also note the A8 SS is geared lower than the Challenger/Charger.

The 5th gen had 20" wheels to, so again not really a performance upgrade as much as style. You can be sure the 20's weigh more than the 19's Ford is using on the PP.

The 6th gen 1SS will not be as firm as the outgoing 1LE. You wouldn't want the base suspension too firm otherwise you might turn away buyers. Most of the suspension for the SS was designed to save weight, so that's what you are paying for. Maybe some would be happier with a heavier car, but Team Camaro was not as that was chief among the complaints.

Again, the price difference has more to do with weight savings and more standard features than anything. Probably less than $1k for the additional cooling features.

Right but I'm talking how the Mustang is cheaper. 20" wheels on the Mustang are $1200. The SS has them. The gearing the SS has. The GT needs to spend $400 to get it. Etc. etc. SS comes with Brembos. That's more $$ on the GT or aftermarket, etc...Those things aren't free on the SS they are part of the $4k difference.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by VF-22

Right but I'm talking how the Mustang is cheaper. 20" wheels on the Mustang are $1200. The SS has them. The gearing the SS has. The GT needs to spend $400 to get it. Etc. etc. SS comes with Brembos. That's more $$ on the GT or aftermarket, etc...Those things aren't free on the SS they are part of the $4k difference.

Ok I was sticking to things that made the '16 more expensive than the '15 in terms of performance.

I can tell you easier than that why the Mustang and Dodge RTs are cheaper, they are slower in every performance category

[khell86]

Originally Posted by obzidian

Would you say the gt pp is much closer to the 1ss?

I dont know if they'll introduce just DI alone, but the new raptor shows a lot of upcoming technology Ford will be using. The new raptor sports the new 10 speed and dual injection. I have a feeling this will end up in the mustang.

[joemosfet]

Originally Posted by khell86

The new raptor sports the new 10 speed

I had a bicycle that had one of those.

[Noob]

Since Ford sells it´s Stang now worldwide (and in spite of high fuel prices their V8 sells better (buyers have to wait 6months now!) than the I4 here in germany) you should not only look at the USA selling numbers now.
GM with chevy and Caddillac left the european market and sells only the Camaro, ATS,CTS and Corvette at some Opel dealers under "GM premium cars".
At the moment we have the IAA in Frankfurt and Ford´s Stang is a impressive eye catcher there ! No sign of a Camaro 2016....ah yes 1 they find somewhere beside in a "chevrolet cafe".
I searched at IAA for chevy or Camaro or corvette and found NOTHING.
I think it´s chevy´s fault when global selling numbers went bad.....

[GretchenGotGrowl]

Originally Posted by Noob

Since Ford sells it´s Stang now worldwide (and in spite of high fuel prices their V8 sells better (buyers have to wait 6months now!) than the I4 here in germany) you should not only look at the USA selling numbers now.
GM with chevy and Caddillac left the european market and sells only the Camaro, ATS,CTS and Corvette at some Opel dealers under "GM premium cars".
At the moment we have the IAA in Frankfurt and Ford´s Stang is a impressive eye catcher there ! No sign of a Camaro 2016....ah yes 1 they find somewhere beside in a "chevrolet cafe".
I searched at IAA for chevy or Camaro or corvette and found NOTHING.
I think it´s chevy´s fault when global selling numbers went bad.....

Facts:

1) Ford is a company, Chevrolet is a nameplate within the company General Motors.
2) With the exception of "Pony Cars" (a small segment), GM was leading Ford in most segments at mid year. The one segment where Ford lead was helped by a new version of the Mustang. It remains to see how that will play out in 2016 with the introduction of a new Camaro by GM.
3) NO GERMAN car manufacturer is even on the radar, but I bet there were Audis, MBs and VWs at the IAA, so having a car on display at that show seems to be uncorrelated with global auto sales.

http://www.autonews.com/article/2015...ales-rivalries

Facts beat trolls every time.

[Cody6.2]

Originally Posted by VF-22

Right but I'm talking how the Mustang is cheaper. 20" wheels on the Mustang are $1200. The SS has them. The gearing the SS has. The GT needs to spend $400 to get it. Etc. etc. SS comes with Brembos. That's more $$ on the GT or aftermarket, etc...Those things aren't free on the SS they are part of the $4k difference.

Not everyone wants a 20" wheel not to mention it isn't a performance advantage. Just like you don't need to spend extra for gearing with a Mustang as the transmission ratios are numerically higher.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

Yea I was reading too far into what you were saying.

I honestly think Ford is missing out by not offering the PP with the auto GTs. They offer it for the EB Auto, so beginning to wonder if they had some concerns with auto's reliability with the 5.0 on the track.

Think we should also note the SS really only gets additional coolers over what would be comparable in a base GT. Ford's PP adds a lot of equipment, so there was no way it would appeal to everyone and would drive cost up. In that sense we probably really wouldn't see any savings by offering the cooling package separate. 6 piston brakes are already optional, so what else are we considering was too much extra for the 1SS?

No reason for them to hold it close since the transmission is being co-developed with GM anyway. So GM will have the trans at the same time too. Now maybe they didn't want people to hold off buying one this year if the 10 speed was coming out next. That I could see.

The 6R80 is a very stout transmission. You could get the PP on one of the limited special edition that they only made 1964 off, so I am not sure why they didn't offer it as a option for regular GTs. Maybe they thought wrong and that only people who got the manual would see/enjoy the benefits of the PP.

Originally Posted by VF-22

I think it has to do with the Auto owning the GT/PP if it had it. Ford still caters to the manual fanboys in America so they only offered it in the manual. In Europe the GT Auto gets the PP. I also think they are holding it over for another new 'option'.

8 speed is far enough for an auto IMO. I think Ford was dumb for not offering an 8 speed in the '15 Mustang. They are far behind the times. Ford seems to updated every few years where they only put so much out.

Actually the SS gets more then just coolers. Talking GT without PP here vs SS.

SS has 3.73 RAR vs the GT that has 3.15s (auto) or 3.33s (Manual). Thats an upgrade for $400 for 3.55s or you have to get the PP for 3.73.

SS gets 20" wheels and staggered set up. GT has 18" wheels without upgrade

SS has run flat Summer tires. GT has all seasons.

Also the SS gets a performance /track suspension where the GT has a sports one (similar to LT on V6).

So the GT needs a lot more on it to make it similar to the 1SS/2SS.

This is just me and I think a few others share this view. Those of us that live in the mid west and states that get snow who might use these cars as DDs, all seasons are better from the factory than summer only. No need to buy a new set of wheels and tires for winter.

Originally Posted by GretchenGotGrowl

Facts:

1) Ford is a company, Chevrolet is a nameplate within the company General Motors.
2) With the exception of "Pony Cars" (a small segment), GM was leading Ford in most segments at mid year. The one segment where Ford lead was helped by a new version of the Mustang. It remains to see how that will play out in 2016 with the introduction of a new Camaro by GM.
3) NO GERMAN car manufacturer is even on the radar, but I bet there were Audis, MBs and VWs at the IAA, so having a car on display at that show seems to be uncorrelated with global auto sales.

http://www.autonews.com/article/2015...ales-rivalries

Facts beat trolls every time.

Fact: Ford is a brand. Ford Motor Company is the parent company. Ford Motor Company is compromised of Ford and Lincoln. Ford brand competes with the Chevrolet brand. Ford Motor Company competes with General Motors.

[GretchenGotGrowl]

Originally Posted by shaffe

The 6R80 is a very stout transmission. You could get the PP on one of the limited special edition that they only made 1964 off, so I am not sure why they didn't offer it as a option for regular GTs. Maybe they thought wrong and that only people who got the manual would see/enjoy the benefits of the PP.



This is just me and I think a few others share this view. Those of us that live in the mid west and states that get snow who might use these cars as DDs, all seasons are better from the factory than summer only. No need to buy a new set of wheels and tires for winter.



Fact: Ford is a brand. Ford Motor Company is the parent company. Ford Motor Company is compromised of Ford and Lincoln. Ford brand competes with the Chevrolet brand. Ford Motor Company competes with General Motors.

And the numbers in the link look at all of FMC vs all of GM instead of just FMC vs Chevy as the troll was trying to do.