[SSport16]

Originally Posted by Frank237

I am SO looking forward to C&D, R&T, Motor Trend, etc...Finally getting a car to TEST! We need some information. Four or five C8's were spotted on a car carrier westbound from Denver yesterday. Hopefully headed to Journalists but also possibly the Driving school in Parump?

I'm not as wound around the axle on the EXACT 0-60 or even 1/4 mile times as many others. I'm more interested in a balanced and reliable GT car. Something I can drive for a thousand miles on a weekend or three days off and not get beat to detah or have a breakdown.

I am torn on not only EXACTLY what to order , as well as losing my hitherto perfect 17 1SS. I'd hate to give up my reliable Camaro and get a bundle of issues in a new C8.

BlaqWhole hit on a bunch of valid points. Especially the "balanced package" issue regarding tires and the suspension options. I'm torn on ordering the Z51 package, especially if it goes up from what it has traditionally cost these past few years. I would like to add the MRC system as that would take care of a harsh suspension but what does that now add to the cost? And is that going to be reliable or another source of issues?

The super sticky Z51 option, summer only tires. Whats their life? No doubt cost to replace a set will be $1600 or more. I'm not a 1500 mile a year owner. A ride to town to get a loaf of bread is a 90+ mile round trip. I can put 10K per year on a summer use only rig pretty quickly. Glacier Park is 200 miles one way and we hit GNP about every 10-14 days when it's open.

I'm thinking a base car, 2LT, NPP exhaust and forget the Z-51 package. Standard rims, NO extra carbon fiber or other trim BS either. I'll opt for the painted brake calipers and that may be it.

I have until Oct/Nov to make a decision, when my Dealer would like a FIRM order commitment. The point of all this may be moot ,should the soon to be released official price list (8/15) turn out to be markedly higher than the C7 prices. I fear the GM beancounters may raise option prices SUBSTANTIALLY considering the extreme interest in the car and the insane amount of orders already placed.

Keep both! That is what I plan on doing next year, 20/21 C8 Stingray/Z06 maybe, then keeping my SS.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

Google all the cars out there with a sub 3 second 0-60 and report back there 1/4 mile times. They all gonna be low 11 to 10 second cars.

https://www.zeroto60times.com/2-seco...-60-mph-times/

some of those cars are either highly modified or are extremely light weight, and in most cases have more HP than the C8 will.

Ex Lambo Hurricane is 3300 pounds(3100ish dry weight) and has 600HP and AWD, the ferrari 488 has 600+ as well.

Now that's not meant to knock the C8, because the C8 is going to put up insane numbers I believe, but just saying I don't think that list is a great source to project C8 #s

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

Google all the cars out there with a sub 3 second 0-60 and report back there 1/4 mile times. They all gonna be low 11 to 10 second cars.

https://www.zeroto60times.com/2-seco...-60-mph-times/

Not for nothing, but every single one of those cars have forced induction. And even the lowest HP one has well over 500 HP. The C8 will have none of that. I believe it will get moving very fast. But what about after 60 MPH? I don't think it will fall on it's face. But all that 0-60 is due to getting the majority of it's power to the ground effectively. After it gets the power down it will keep accelerating but not enough to hit 11 flat. At least I don't think it will. And I don't think it will beat a Z06 in the quarter mile. Or the ZL1 with A10 for that matter.

[Frank237]

Originally Posted by SSport16

Keep both! That is what I plan on doing next year, 20/21 C8 Stingray/Z06 maybe, then keeping my SS.

Wish I could but financial responsibility for a 93 yr old Mom residing 2200 miles east of me precludes that fantasy.

It's one and thats it. Thankfully my daily ride is reliable and paid for, so no issues there.

[KingLT1]

Originally Posted by shaffe

some of those cars are either highly modified or are extremely light weight, and in most cases have more HP than the C8 will.

Ex Lambo Hurricane is 3300 pounds(3100ish dry weight) and has 600HP and AWD, the ferrari 488 has 600+ as well.

Now that's not meant to knock the C8, because the C8 is going to put up insane numbers I believe, but just saying I don't think that list is a great source to project C8 #s

I linked that list to show that any "comparable" factory car with a sub 3 second 0-60 covers the 1/4 at minimum 11.2.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Not for nothing, but every single one of those cars have forced induction. And even the lowest HP one has well over 500 HP. The C8 will have none of that. I believe it will get moving very fast. But what about after 60 MPH? I don't think it will fall on it's face. But all that 0-60 is due to getting the majority of it's power to the ground effectively. After it gets the power down it will keep accelerating but not enough to hit 11 flat. At least I don't think it will. And I don't think it will beat a Z06 in the quarter mile. Or the ZL1 with A10 for that matter.

That is basically saying a C7 z51 would pull back on the C8 z51 and make up a half second of the full second it lost to the C8 in the first 60 mph even though the C8 has more power and a more efficient drive line?

Again, if the C8 z51 gets out 1 full second to 60mph on the C7 z51, then it will at minimum maintain that spread to the 1/4 mile. Anything less would mean the C7 is making up ground after 60mph and I don't see that happening when the C8 makes more power and shifts faster.

Edit* Keep in mind I do agree with a lot of what you are saying. I am basing this on the fact it actually does 2.8 0-60. I would expected to see a 0-60 of 3.5 with a 1/4 mi time of 11.5. I think that is where the difference in opinion lies. I agree that 11.0 is a bit of a stretch, but that is where a 2.8 0-60 would put it based off of what past gm vehicles have ran at similar weights and HP ranges. honestly even with DCT and being ME, 2.8 is one hell of a time on street tires, almost seems impossible.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by lt4camaro

...I believe the C8 495 horse car will dyno 420-430 rwhp. Cannot imagine the C8 drive train will be that much more efficient than the C7 transaxle set up

Yeah it will. You're eliminating the torque tube and additional connection points, all of which add weight and absorb power. The rear wheels on the C8 are being driven directly from the transaxle. On a front-engine rear-wheel-drive setup, the drivetrain loss is typically anywhere from 12-16%, with power being absorbed by the flywheel, clutch, trans, u-joints, driveshaft and differential. With a mid-engine/transaxle setup, it's engine, flywheel, clutch, trans. The trans and differential are one and the same.

I'm going to guess that the drivetrain loss on the C8 will be 10% or lower. Hard guess I will say 9%, which on an engine with a crank hp of 495 would mean 450 will make it to the rear wheels. It's a new trans and we don't know the efficiency of it yet. It literally comes down to the resistance of the flywheel and oil in the trans. If it's an 8% loss, that means 470 is making it to the wheels. That kind of efficiency translates into quickness of response. Add to that computer control that can take advantage of and maximize that efficiency, and the C8 is going to be a terrific driver's car. It should be a blast to drive.

Although it's not being designed to be a 1/4 mile machine, it won't be a slouch either. Don't underestimate the importance of aerodynamics beyond 60 mph. The C8 is going to get more performance out of 495 hp than any previous Corvette.

[6spdhyperblue]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Not for nothing, but every single one of those cars have forced induction. And even the lowest HP one has well over 500 HP. The C8 will have none of that. I believe it will get moving very fast. But what about after 60 MPH? I don't think it will fall on it's face. But all that 0-60 is due to getting the majority of it's power to the ground effectively. After it gets the power down it will keep accelerating but not enough to hit 11 flat. At least I don't think it will. And I don't think it will beat a Z06 in the quarter mile. Or the ZL1 with A10 for that matter.

So would it be similar to a ss car with 30-50 extra hp that was running drag radials against a ZL1 that was on stockers? Who wins there?

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

I linked that list to show that any "comparable" factory car with a sub 3 second 0-60 covers the 1/4 at minimum 11.2.



That is basically saying a C7 z51 would pull back on the C8 z51 and make up a half second of the full second it lost to the C8 in the first 60 mph even though the C8 has more power and a more efficient drive line?

Again, if the C8 z51 gets out 1 full second to 60mph on the C7 z51, then it will at minimum maintain that spread to the 1/4 mile. Anything less would mean the C7 is making up ground after 60mph and I don't see that happening when the C8 makes more power and shifts faster.

Edit* Keep in mind I do agree with a lot of what you are saying. I am basing this on the fact it actually does 2.8 0-60. I would expected to see a 0-60 of 3.5 with a 1/4 mi time of 11.5. I think that is where the difference in opinion lies. I agree that 11.0 is a bit of a stretch, but that is where a 2.8 0-60 would put it based off of what past gm vehicles have ran at similar weights and HP ranges. honestly even with DCT and being ME, 2.8 is one hell of a time on street tires, almost seems impossible.

Yea man I'm starting to revise my thinking on this matter. I'm looking at other vehicles with a mid/rear engine design and around the same HP range and seeing what they're all doing. Cars like the Aventador, Huracan, Gallardo, Spider...they're all doing low 3 sec to high 2 sec 0-60s and are in the mid 10 sec to low 11 sec quarter mile range. Granted they do have more HP than what GM is reporting that the C8 has. But I'm thinking the C8 will be more in the low 500 HP range. And I'm seeing that the C8 has much more TQ than some of these cars. I'm starting to think that it actually will be faster than the C7 Z06 and we just might see high 10 sec times in the Z51.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Yea man I'm starting to revise my thinking on this matter. I'm looking at other vehicles with a mid/rear engine design and around the same HP range and seeing what they're all doing. Cars like the Aventador, Huracan, Gallardo, Spider...they're all doing low 3 sec to high 2 sec 0-60s and are in the mid 10 sec to low 11 sec quarter mile range. Granted they do have more HP than what GM is reporting that the C8 has. But I'm thinking the C8 will be more in the low 500 HP range. And I'm seeing that the C8 has much more TQ than some of these cars. I'm starting to think that it actually will be faster than the C7 Z06 and we just might see high 10 sec times in the Z51.

Wasn't someone at or affiliated with GM quoted saying it would out perform the the C7Z?

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Wasn't someone at or affiliated with GM quoted saying it would out perform the the C7Z?

Yes but I initially disagreed with that. But now I'm coming around. I'm thinking the C8 will change things completely.

[lt4camaro]

Originally Posted by Doc

Yeah it will. You're eliminating the torque tube and additional connection points, all of which add weight and absorb power. The rear wheels on the C8 are being driven directly from the transaxle. On a front-engine rear-wheel-drive setup, the drivetrain loss is typically anywhere from 12-16%, with power being absorbed by the flywheel, clutch, trans, u-joints, driveshaft and differential. With a mid-engine/transaxle setup, it's engine, flywheel, clutch, trans. The trans and differential are one and the same.

I'm going to guess that the drivetrain loss on the C8 will be 10% or lower. Hard guess I will say 9%, which on an engine with a crank hp of 495 would mean 450 will make it to the rear wheels. It's a new trans and we don't know the efficiency of it yet. It literally comes down to the resistance of the flywheel and oil in the trans. If it's an 8% loss, that means 470 is making it to the wheels. That kind of efficiency translates into quickness of response. Add to that computer control that can take advantage of and maximize that efficiency, and the C8 is going to be a terrific driver's car. It should be a blast to drive.

Although it's not being designed to be a 1/4 mile machine, it won't be a slouch either. Don't underestimate the importance of aerodynamics beyond 60 mph. The C8 is going to get more performance out of 495 hp than any previous Corvette.

I am comparing the C7 trans axle drive train not a rear drive transmission in the middle vehicle versus the mid engine drivetrain, real world the drivetrains today absorb 15% . Look at Gm sae certified horsepower ratings, then get a bunch of good stock dyno pulls, add 15 % to those dyno pulls and your very close to the SAE certified rating . IMO, I do not think the Mid engine drive train will be that much more efficient on a dyno, maybe 12% versus 15%. Great 0-60 times are achieved by a super hook and no spin all the way to 60 and no spin during a hard shift. After that 60 to 120 will be slightly quicker only because of the super fast shifts and power thru shift that the tremec DCT allows instead of power interuption on a typical torque converter automatic and of course a manual trans even while power shifting.

[6spdhyperblue]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Yes but I initially disagreed with that. But now I'm coming around. I'm thinking the C8 will change things completely.

Yeah I agree that I wouldn’t go and assume that it would be faster in every way possible.

[lt4camaro]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Yea man I'm starting to revise my thinking on this matter. I'm looking at other vehicles with a mid/rear engine design and around the same HP range and seeing what they're all doing. Cars like the Aventador, Huracan, Gallardo, Spider...they're all doing low 3 sec to high 2 sec 0-60s and are in the mid 10 sec to low 11 sec quarter mile range. Granted they do have more HP than what GM is reporting that the C8 has. But I'm thinking the C8 will be more in the low 500 HP range. And I'm seeing that the C8 has much more TQ than some of these cars. I'm starting to think that it actually will be faster than the C7 Z06 and we just might see high 10 sec times in the Z51.

0-60 times are not a accurate indicator of real world 1/4 mile et. 60ft times, 330 ft times and 1/8 times are, that is what is measured at any 1/4 mile track. Also, you cannot compare boosted cars versus naturally aspirated cars, cannot compare automatic cars versus stick cars or automatic cars versus DCT cars. Certified horsepower, weight, boost, NA, rear wheel drive versus all wheel drive etc must all be separated. The Z51 C8 is quoted to get to 60 in under 3.0 sec ( probably 2.9), the new GT 500 ford says mid 3 sec to 60 (3.5) it it will trap and et much quicker than the Z51 C8. Thats why I say 0-60 doesnt mean crap as far as 1/4 mile et goes. The C8 is going to be a street war killer up to under 100mph. God bless corvette. Horsepower, torque, gears, auto trans versus manual trans make for huge differences in 60 ft times, ET and MPH. I had a 69 chevelle with a mild built 454 , 3.73 gear, turbo 400 auto trans, best et was 11.5 @ 117 MPH with a 1.65 60 ft time. I also had a 2008 Z06 minor tweaks, factory goodyear run flats, factory 3.42 rear, best Et 11.5 @ 125mph with a 1.89 60ft time. Both cars ET the same but in such a different manor. The chevelle was super efficient, great hook, no spin, good hard no spin shifts, much more rear gear = low ET and low mile per hour

[lt4camaro]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Wasn't someone at or affiliated with GM quoted saying it would out perform the the C7Z?

Out perform it how, to 60 or 100 MPH? short low speed road course's probably.