[Deki]

Originally Posted by Bad@ssCamaro

Yes, but you're doing it for a little less money I think that's the point of it was.

ZL1 (w/ livernois package) - 55K + 5800 = 60.8k
GT500(w/ track pack/pp pack) - 55K + 6500 = 61.5

You forgot the $1300 gas guzzler tax, so you're at $62.3k on the ZL1 to be realistic though, if you're drag racing you don't need the PP or the TP on the Shelby.

[BigHemiSrt]

Originally Posted by motorhead

This is where GM dropped the ball. I believe that while it seems they are a shade below the GT500 in performace that overall they have the best car. They just have a lousy system for people to buy them.

I totally agree with you on the qc thing. Thats unacceptable. The car is a 2012 yet now 2013 GT500 owners are getting their cars before the ZL1 owners. If i had a Z on order this would piss me off to no end.

The Z is a awesome machine. As a whole it was FAR from dropping the ball BUT as a direct competitor and "slayer" of the Shelby it def was a ball dropping attempt. I mean it was GM pounding there chests saying this and that. On press days showing side by side comparison of the two bc they had a mere 30 more hp. They left out one thing tho, it weighed 300 more lbs. the fact that after all this chest pounding that its not even the clear winner against a 2012 Shelby is what makes it a epic FAIL.

Ppl keep saying that the Z and 13 Shelby are a drivers race. Its NOT. In fact. The ZR1 and 13 Shelby is more of a drivers race than them two. A .5-1.0 sec and up 13mph (116 vs 129) advantage is far from a drivers race.

12 Shelby vs ZL1= Drivers Race
13 Shelby vs ZL1= Shelby
13 Shelby vs 12 Shelby= 13 Shelby (obviously right)

Definition of drivers race. With all things being equal. Even drivers.

Of course if you would let my GF that has never driven a stick drive the Shelby and put me in a Geo Metro it would be a divers race also with me having the advantage.

[2012 IngotSilver 5.0]

Originally Posted by Bad@ssCamaro

HEY! We gained one....but we might lose a couple of vert guys :(

I owned six new 5.0 Stang's from the 80's-'90's. Life changes took me out of Pony cars until I got a 10 Camaro LS (first Camaro I owned in 33 years of driving!).

Traded that in on an 11 V6 Stang, and am now back in the saddle of a new 12 GT. So Chevy never lost me, because they never really had me.

But differences in taste is what makes the world interesting. And Pony cars is where it's at ... Ford or Chevy.

[Bad@ssCamaro]

Originally Posted by 2012ZL1

OMG who gives a rats @ss about the Shelby?. Last time I looked this was a Camaro site. I come here to discuss Camaros not blankety blank Shelbys. If I wanted a Shelby I'd buy one. I don't want a shelby. They could make 5000 hp, be dipped in gold and smaell like a field of roses and I'd still buy a CAMARO.

THAT'S TELLIN' THESE IDJUTS!!!

(amen, brother, amen)

[BigHemiSrt]

Originally Posted by chevy 3

Strait line racing isnt for everyone.I like road racing and in my opinion the zl1 is a no frigging brainer. GM never dropped the ball. They did what they wanted and mission accomplished. For the ones second guessing Chevy just go buy a ford for cripe sakes we don't need you. Lol as soon as I can afford a factory race car I'll be getting a zl1.

Dude give it up. You like road racing? I like watching football but i dont play it. There alot of things i like that i will probably never do. So let me ask you this. Since you like road racing how many times have you raced on a road course. How many times have you raced in a straight line? Be it the dragstrip or red light.

You like road racing so much? A vette would be a better choice. At the end of the day tho its a free country and you buy what you want. All that matter is if youre happy.

[Bad@ssCamaro]

Originally Posted by 2012 IngotSilver 5.0

I owned six new 5.0 Stang's from the 80's-'90's. Life changes took me out of Pony cars until I got a 10 Camaro LS (first Camaro I owned in 33 years of driving!).

Traded that in on an 11 V6 Stang, and am now back in the saddle of a new 12 GT. So Chevy never lost me, because they never really had me.

But differences in taste is what makes the world interesting. And Pony cars is where it's at ... Ford or Chevy.

Well then.....I guess we can count you off the list for the Christmas party :(








j/k - it's cool that you have respect for the ponies from the blue oval and the bowtie








(psssst.....guys.....take him off the list)

[69bossnine]

This has been a humorous exercise for me... A lesson in abject denial, and the silliness it can create..

For months the denial has been that a Camaro with a 7.15 lb/hp ratio could overcome a Mustang with 5.84 lb/hp by virtue of bigger tires, magnetic shocks, and launch control.

Then the humor moves to all of the disbelief that the 2013 Shelby is running exactly what you'd FIGURE it would run just doing the simple bench-racing math. What a surprise!!

And now, I see Chevy faithful, a historically proud and race-savvy bunch, dismissing 5-7 mph trap speed differentials between the two cars as "not making it any quicker" and "not that big of a difference"... The kind of lame, shoulder-slouching-toe-tapping nonsense I'm used to seeing on Honda Civic forums.

And what about the hypocrisy? If there's a ZR1 magazine comparo, and a Porsche GT3 gets higher-ratings for its steering feel, fun-to-drive quotient, and overall handling characteristics, the whole notion gets dismissed as "mamby-pamby-limp-wristed-nonsense" since the ZR1 just throws down like a hammer of Thor. You laugh at people who worry about "feel" and "turn-in" and "balance", and just grunt like Tim Allen about the ZR1..

Now the 2013 GT500 starts making the rounds, throwing down some beastly times (as EVERYONE expected, it's no surprise ferchrisake), and all these Chevy forum guys are putting on their tu-tu's, their ballet slippers, their tiaras, and grabbing their bejeweled wands, and skipping around the dance floor talking about the "balance and feel and versatility and nuance" of their top-line hot-rod.

It's either funny, or pathetic, however you might look at it.

If you didn't like all of the lame excuses the 4.6 Mustang GT guys made when the SS hit the road, then go back and re-read your identical pablum here, and re-evaluate where you're at. Somewhere along the line, you put down your beer, and picked up a frosty bottle of Zima...

[Bad@ssCamaro]

Originally Posted by Deki

You forgot the $1300 gas guzzler tax, so you're at $62.1k on the ZL1 to be realistic though, if you're drag racing you don't need the PP or the TP on the Shelby.

but you're going to need it for the HPDE events

[SlingShot]

Originally Posted by 9sec5oh

A guy who seems to have inside info from Ford who is always solid with his information. BTW it's 11.5@127, with a best trap speed of 129. He also says the 609 RWHP was a middle road dyno #, with as high as 624 seen.

Those numbers are just way out in left field IMO ... I just can't see a 6% or less drive train loss ... Where is the proof rather than he said, she said ....

[BigHemiSrt]

The GT500 will not touch a C6Z around a road course. Dont be silly ppl. In a straight line tho its gonna be a EPIC BATTLE that im looking very foward to watching.

Would love to see a 0-190 times on both cars.

[BigHemiSrt]

Originally Posted by 69bossnine

This has been a humorous exercise for me... A lesson in abject denial, and the silliness it can create..

For months the denial has been that a Camaro with a 7.15 lb/hp ratio could overcome a Mustang with 5.84 lb/hp by virtue of bigger tires, magnetic shocks, and launch control.

Then the humor moves to all of the disbelief that the 2013 Shelby is running exactly what you'd FIGURE it would run just doing the simple bench-racing math. What a surprise!!

And now, I see Chevy faithful, a historically proud and race-savvy bunch, dismissing 5-7 mph trap speed differentials between the two cars as "not making it any quicker" and "not that big of a difference"... The kind of lame, shoulder-slouching-toe-tapping nonsense I'm used to seeing on Honda Civic forums.

And what about the hypocrisy? If there's a ZR1 magazine comparo, and a Porsche GT3 gets higher-ratings for its steering feel, fun-to-drive quotient, and overall handling characteristics, the whole notion gets dismissed as "mamby-pamby-limp-wristed-nonsense" since the ZR1 just throws down like a hammer of Thor. You laugh at people who worry about "feel" and "turn-in" and "balance", and just grunt like Tim Allen about the ZR1..

Now the 2013 GT500 starts making the rounds, throwing down some beastly times (as EVERYONE expected, it's no surprise ferchrisake), and all these Chevy forum guys are putting on their tu-tu's, their ballet slippers, their tiaras, and grabbing their bejeweled wands, and skipping around the dance floor talking about the "balance and feel and versatility and nuance" of their top-line hot-rod.

It's either funny, or pathetic, however you might look at it.

If you didn't like all of the lame excuses the 4.6 Mustang GT guys made when the SS hit the road, then go back and re-read your identical pablum here, and re-evaluate where you're at. Somewhere along the line, you put down your beer, and picked up a frosty bottle of Zima...

Wow!!! Post of the century!!! Well done sir!!!

[69bossnine]

For those who think there's some sort of unwritten rule at GM regarding the protection of Corvette turf, I'll remind you of the 1989 20th Anniversary T/A (much faster than Corvette), the 1987 Buick GNX, the 1979 L78 4-speed WS6 T/A, and the 1973-1974 SD455 T/A...

There's been plenty of moments in history where Corvette got pushed around a bit at the drag strip, and the '79 WS6 T/A would've probably sent the L-82 '79 Corvette to pits on a road course too...

Let's face it, I don't think Camaro sales bleed off sales from the Corvette... There's no comparison to a Corvette, it lives or dies on its own merits. It's tough selling 2-seater sports cars right now, I don't think anyone's sales figures are up, and the Corvette is getting damn long-in-tooth from a production-cycle standpoint.

The "ceiling" that Chevy faces with the cost/price of the ZL1 has nothing to do with Corvette prices, it has everything to do with how much people are willing to pay for a damn Camaro... Ford faces the same reality with the Mustang, and with all the options laid onto it, they're pretty much up at the limit of what people would shell-out for a fast Mustang.

I also find it humorous that when prices are compared, it's the base MSRP of the ZR1 vs. the GT500 loaded with every possible option. C'mon now...

[Crowley]

IMHO, in the end, both GM and FORD are winners. They are offering this type of performance at a price that is much lower than the competition.

I don't think anyone can say the ZL1 is NOT a great car .. look at what it can do!! .. However people had to be realistic when we are talking about the 2013 GT500 as the car is a bit lighter and had more HP (plus I would be less drivetrain loss). All of that would = better 1/4 mile times and MPH if the traction could be put down. It looks like with the changes made it can put it down a bit more efficiently than the 11/12 models.

We also knew the GT500 could handle ... Think back to when magazines compared the GT, BOSS, and GT500 to say the M3 or mentioned it could hang with an M3 ... that means it could handle ... I would venture to say though that even though it can handle, I bet the ZL1 can handle a bit more efficiently w/ it's suspension setup.

In the end, it is a win for American Car makers and also goes to show how a little rivalry is a GREAT thing .. look at where these cars are today and thank the other car maker!!

Crowley

[joey0480]

Push comes to shove these are great cars and there will always be a competition between Ford/Chevy/Dodge etc... on evolving the cars to bigger and better things.

We can't be always chasing the "next best thing" when it comes to cars....otherwise you will never be happy. In the end, they are both excellent vehicles with ups and downs to both.