[Ottawaguy2018]

I'm in Canada so pricing is a bit different but I thought I would put in my opinion.

I've always thought the best thing to do for a Camaro or any vehicle is to go into a dealership with realistic expectations.

#1. They are a business and have to pay for the building, lights, employees etc So if you beat them up on price to the point where they make nothing. Why would they go above and beyond for you?

#2. It's much easier to get services like oil changes, paint protection, tire storage etc than it is discounts.

#3. Get to know your Sales person. Make sure they know what they are talking about and care.

#4.There is something to be said about dealership loyality

As long as you keep those covered, your expectations will be met, you'll get a good deal and everyone will be happy

[Forgotten]

"Realistic expectations" are what is up in the air, for everyone. That is what car dealers DON'T want you to have. There is no way to have an actual number before you go into a car dealer, no matter the preparation.

For example, my situation. I am looking for a brand new 17-18 1SS. It must have NPP. I'd like it to be summit white, but I'm open on the color. So I check the "invoice pricing" out, Auto trader says it starts at $35,520. Add NPP, then it's 36,420. That's an automatic 1SS with NPP.

I bought a 2014 1SS early in 2014, stock, for about 32k. I would consider that my lowest possible price I would be lucky to get.

Prices on the internet for a 2018 1SS range from 45k, down to 36-37k. I received an OTD price for one at 35.3k. This is lower than the invoice, so that can't possibly be the true cost they paid for the car. I don't remember checking invoice on my 2014, and I'm assuming 5th gens cost less to make than 6th gens. And still, I know they have to make some money. But I also don't deserve to be hosed.

The 35.3k car was a 1SS Hyper Blue Metallic with a sunroof and NPP. This blue is premium paint, so 500 bucks. Sunroof is 900. They offered to swap it for a Summit White one without a sunroof for the same price. Then they don't understand why I'd be annoyed they don't want to come down on the price anymore. This car should be worth 33.9k. Even if there's a delivery fee for moving it, it should be near this price.

Nope, now we don't care about invoice. It's moving the goal posts, constantly.

In the end, it's still all about money. No matter how nice a salesman you get, the finance guy is still going to choke all the money he can out of you.

I'd love to find a dealer that deserved my business. Every time I buy a car, either the salesman doesn't want to take care of any issues after the fact, or the service department tries to hose you and lie to your face. Or the finance guy sold you things you didn't agree to. The list goes on and on here in Oklahoma. So I'm jaded as hell.

It doesn't help every single time I email one of these places, I get nowhere with the price. Everyone says "shop around on the internet". As far as I'm concerned, dealing with internet managers who can't remember which car you're interested in, or if they've told you it's sold already but continue to ask if you were still interested in the car. It's insane.

Nowhere else in society do we have to do this to buy an item. It's frustrating, predatory, and makes me want to punch things. And even places that declare "the price on the car is our lowest price!" or "our prices are determined by computer to be the lowest we can offer!" are full of absolute shit.

So you can be "best outcome" and I'll be "decent outcome", because we all know there are far worse stories than mine. There's a dealer here in OKC with over 3000 Better Business Bureau complaints that sells people's cars while they are test driving them. And they've been doing it for 15+ years.

TLDR someone give me a good dealer in Oklahoma, USA. :P

[Ottawaguy2018]

Originally Posted by Forgotten

"Realistic expectations" are what is up in the air, for everyone. That is what car dealers DON'T want you to have. There is no way to have an actual number before you go into a car dealer, no matter the preparation.

For example, my situation. I am looking for a brand new 17-18 1SS. It must have NPP. I'd like it to be summit white, but I'm open on the color. So I check the "invoice pricing" out, Auto trader says it starts at $35,520. Add NPP, then it's 36,420. That's an automatic 1SS with NPP.

I bought a 2014 1SS early in 2014, stock, for about 32k. I would consider that my lowest possible price I would be lucky to get.

Prices on the internet for a 2018 1SS range from 45k, down to 36-37k. I received an OTD price for one at 35.3k. This is lower than the invoice, so that can't possibly be the true cost they paid for the car. I don't remember checking invoice on my 2014, and I'm assuming 5th gens cost less to make than 6th gens. And still, I know they have to make some money. But I also don't deserve to be hosed.

The 35.3k car was a 1SS Hyper Blue Metallic with a sunroof and NPP. This blue is premium paint, so 500 bucks. Sunroof is 900. They offered to swap it for a Summit White one without a sunroof for the same price. Then they don't understand why I'd be annoyed they don't want to come down on the price anymore. This car should be worth 33.9k. Even if there's a delivery fee for moving it, it should be near this price.

Nope, now we don't care about invoice. It's moving the goal posts, constantly.

In the end, it's still all about money. No matter how nice a salesman you get, the finance guy is still going to choke all the money he can out of you.

I'd love to find a dealer that deserved my business. Every time I buy a car, either the salesman doesn't want to take care of any issues after the fact, or the service department tries to hose you and lie to your face. Or the finance guy sold you things you didn't agree to. The list goes on and on here in Oklahoma. So I'm jaded as hell.

It doesn't help every single time I email one of these places, I get nowhere with the price. Everyone says "shop around on the internet". As far as I'm concerned, dealing with internet managers who can't remember which car you're interested in, or if they've told you it's sold already but continue to ask if you were still interested in the car. It's insane.

Nowhere else in society do we have to do this to buy an item. It's frustrating, predatory, and makes me want to punch things. And even places that declare "the price on the car is our lowest price!" or "our prices are determined by computer to be the lowest we can offer!" are full of absolute shit.

So you can be "best outcome" and I'll be "decent outcome", because we all know there are far worse stories than mine. There's a dealer here in OKC with over 3000 Better Business Bureau complaints that sells people's cars while they are test driving them. And they've been doing it for 15+ years.

TLDR someone give me a good dealer in Oklahoma, USA. :P

Wow! that's crazy. I'm lucky I have a buddy for works for a GM dealer here in Ontario Canada. I know sometimes GM will give extra money or programs to dealers that will bring them below cost.

That I meant by realistic expectations is that, don't walk into a dealer and say "I want $10,000 off or I'm walking" because you will just get disappointed.

I know my Sales guy after we did the deal, actually showed me the sheet where the dealership made about $1000. That is good considering in Canada Camaro's range from $29,995 to $80,000. Mine is about $45,000.

I really appreciated his honesty and that's the reason I'll be back. Maybe you just have bad salesman in your area.

Management and service are the hard parts here but I know I can call my Sales guy ("Brett" at Surgenor in Barrhaven) anytime day or night to ask him any question and he will get me the answer.

[Forgotten]

Originally Posted by Ottawaguy2018

Wow! that's crazy. I'm lucky I have a buddy for works for a GM dealer here in Ontario Canada. I know sometimes GM will give extra money or programs to dealers that will bring them below cost.

That I meant by realistic expectations is that, don't walk into a dealer and say "I want $10,000 off or I'm walking" because you will just get disappointed.

I know my Sales guy after we did the deal, actually showed me the sheet where the dealership made about $1000. That is good considering in Canada Camaro's range from $29,995 to $80,000. Mine is about $45,000.

I really appreciated his honesty and that's the reason I'll be back. Maybe you just have bad salesman in your area.

Management and service are the hard parts here but I know I can call my Sales guy ("Brett" at Surgenor in Barrhaven) anytime day or night to ask him any question and he will get me the answer.

Yep, you have a great salesman, apparently. But finance can really screw it all up, too, so they must be good for you, as well. Went to look at a 2015 2SS 1LE yesterday. Asking 25k,40k miles, rock chipped to hell, scratches everywhere, and had an aftermarket sunroof that was leaking. Salesman was great, finance guy was even great, not a hard seller. But they wouldn't deal a single cent on the car. They didn't want to fix the sunroof, they would "try to find who installed it and get it warrantied", but not a sure fix. And a lot of the 1LE vinyl wraps were scratched to hell or fraying.

All I asked for was the sunroof fixed and the spoiler and the lower right body panel to be re-wrapped. Nope, wouldn't do it. Offered them 25k OTD with just fixing the sunroof.

Nope, would not move a single cent. Claimed they had lost money on it as a trade. Not my problem, and on top of that you know they upped their trade value, but didn't come down on the truck the previous buyer had bought from them.

Another frustrating entire day wasted.

[Ottawaguy2018]

Originally Posted by Forgotten

Yep, you have a great salesman, apparently. But finance can really screw it all up, too, so they must be good for you, as well. Went to look at a 2015 2SS 1LE yesterday. Asking 25k,40k miles, rock chipped to hell, scratches everywhere, and had an aftermarket sunroof that was leaking. Salesman was great, finance guy was even great, not a hard seller. But they wouldn't deal a single cent on the car. They didn't want to fix the sunroof, they would "try to find who installed it and get it warrantied", but not a sure fix. And a lot of the 1LE vinyl wraps were scratched to hell or fraying.

All I asked for was the sunroof fixed and the spoiler and the lower right body panel to be re-wrapped. Nope, wouldn't do it. Offered them 25k OTD with just fixing the sunroof.

Nope, would not move a single cent. Claimed they had lost money on it as a trade. Not my problem, and on top of that you know they upped their trade value, but didn't come down on the truck the previous buyer had bought from them.

Another frustrating entire day wasted.

I asked my Sales guy about this. He said he wouldn't be shocked if they wouldn't budge because they more than likely were just breaking even. Here in Canada there is a new trend on used vehicles that they don't mark them up so people can't negotiate.

But he also said, them not covering the sunroof, wrap etc is crazy. He said they should have done all that before putting it for sale in the first place.

[Forgotten]

Yeah, get this! After we left, they RAISED THE PRICE BY 2k!!! So many of these dealers have no clue what an 1LE package is, and apparently I'm educating them. Freaking ridiculous. If your'e a Chevy dealer, learn about your cars. The FINANCE guy didn't even know.

And they sold the car for 27.6k after raising the price. Like two days later it was gone.

I've looked at three or four 1LEs and a number of 2016-17 Camaros, and they won't budge on the price a single penny.

And I'll throw this link up, 2018 1SS Camaros are going for 32k on the east coast of the US, right now.

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/new/se...ting=187159683

Had a salesman laugh at me for telling him I could get one for 32k, said "Well hell, I should buy from you!" Yet, here dealers are selling them for it. Bout a thousand miles away from me, 21 hour drive. Is it worth 3 grand in savings? Plane ticket and a drive home, and it might be!

[Ottawaguy2018]

Originally Posted by Forgotten

Yeah, get this! After we left, they RAISED THE PRICE BY 2k!!! So many of these dealers have no clue what an 1LE package is, and apparently I'm educating them. Freaking ridiculous. If your'e a Chevy dealer, learn about your cars. The FINANCE guy didn't even know.

And they sold the car for 27.6k after raising the price. Like two days later it was gone.

I've looked at three or four 1LEs and a number of 2016-17 Camaros, and they won't budge on the price a single penny.

And I'll throw this link up, 2018 1SS Camaros are going for 32k on the east coast of the US, right now.

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/new/se...ting=187159683

Had a salesman laugh at me for telling him I could get one for 32k, said "Well hell, I should buy from you!" Yet, here dealers are selling them for it. Bout a thousand miles away from me, 21 hour drive. Is it worth 3 grand in savings? Plane ticket and a drive home, and it might be!

I agree, I know I've talked to my sales guy about this who is the biggest Camaro fan I've ever met. But his dealership is more of a truck center so they rarely have camaros.

I'd say they could have done something to it, or the owner said lets try to make money off it, or they just adjusted for what the market says.

I'll never say anything bad about a business for trying to make money, dealerships are expensive.

My guess is that they likely did like $1500 worth for safety or something and then made $500

[1le32907]

Dealers have something called holdback and other credits for advertising etc there is an equation to figure out the true dealer cost. It’s much less than invoice it’s a joke really when a dealer says they are breaking even gm cars get like 3% holdback on MARIO plus options and there are addition bonuses when they sell a car just google it.

[Forgotten]

Originally Posted by 1le32907

Dealers have something called holdback and other credits for advertising etc there is an equation to figure out the true dealer cost. It’s much less than invoice it’s a joke really when a dealer says they are breaking even gm cars get like 3% holdback on MARIO plus options and there are addition bonuses when they sell a car just google it.

Yeah, I haven't messed with mentioning holdback yet to most of these jokers, I just go straight to offended when they tell me they can't come down on the price. I had one dealer tell me that 36,418 on a 2018 1SS Summit White, NPP and Ground Effects package, 36,418 was with them giving me holdback. The car was listed for 37,7k, and they claimed they offered up a military discount in the 36.4k, as well as holdback, and I even believe at the time there was the 1.5k loyalty, and 1k Cash Alllowance!

I am not a genius, but I can still math.

[Ottawaguy2018]

Originally Posted by 1le32907

Dealers have something called holdback and other credits for advertising etc there is an equation to figure out the true dealer cost. It’s much less than invoice it’s a joke really when a dealer says they are breaking even gm cars get like 3% holdback on MARIO plus options and there are addition bonuses when they sell a car just google it.

Maybe in the States, I'm not sure.

Here in Canada dealers get certain promotions from GM that come off the MSRP (like finance cash, loyalty, discontinued brand, military etc) and on some vehicles they can haggle from there.

But realistically if you go into any other kind of store and try to haggle, they usually tell you that they have prices listed for a reason, why should dealerships be any different?

I know my buddy who works for GM tells me about customers coming in wanting $10,000 off vehicles and he just laughs because he has access to maybe $2000 in discounts and at that they are making $1200.

People need realistic expectations and they also need to realize that dealers need to make their money too, if everyone cut the dealers down to no profit, then there wouldn't be dealers to get cars, they would go bankrupt.

[georgez32]

I'm pretty sure you can easily get more than $2000 in discounts from the dealer alone, and then after that you can take advantage of whatever discounts that GM is offering at the time. I was able to get 15% off MSRP which ended up being $55.5k->47k with $8500 taken off pretax ended up being $9500 after tax. But only problem is with that cash deal GM was offering there is no financing deals. Also have gotten offers of ~$4000 off with 0% financing as well which was pretty good, just have to shop around not only the dealers around you but across the country as well

[Ottawaguy2018]

Originally Posted by georgez32

I'm pretty sure you can easily get more than $2000 in discounts from the dealer alone, and then after that you can take advantage of whatever discounts that GM is offering at the time. I was able to get 15% off MSRP which ended up being $55.5k->47k with $8500 taken off pretax ended up being $9500 after tax. But only problem is with that cash deal GM was offering there is no financing deals. Also have gotten offers of ~$4000 off with 0% financing as well which was pretty good, just have to shop around not only the dealers around you but across the country as well

the $2000 I mentioned was on a 2018 Equinox my buddy told me about.

in Canada the cash discount on a Camaro is usually $3500 plus a $500 Scotia bank visa.

with those discounts they make about $2500 in Canada, my buddy whos in sales at GM has showed me the program where it says how much they make.

I can see them taking it down so they make a bit less. But honestly if I was a dealer I wouldn't sell anything without making at least $1500 minimum.

If you are getting 15% off MSRP, it must me extra money GM gave to the dealer to get rid of that vehicle, because no dealer in their right mind would ever lose money on a vehicle.

But who knows it may be different in the States

[georgez32]

Originally Posted by Ottawaguy2018

the $2000 I mentioned was on a 2018 Equinox my buddy told me about.

in Canada the cash discount on a Camaro is usually $3500 plus a $500 Scotia bank visa.

with those discounts they make about $2500 in Canada, my buddy whos in sales at GM has showed me the program where it says how much they make.

I can see them taking it down so they make a bit less. But honestly if I was a dealer I wouldn't sell anything without making at least $1500 minimum.

If you are getting 15% off MSRP, it must me extra money GM gave to the dealer to get rid of that vehicle, because no dealer in their right mind would ever lose money on a vehicle.

But who knows it may be different in the States

Yup, that steep of a discount was fronted by GM for sure, but previous deal I was offered was not a cash deal, it came with the 0% financing, another dealer I was in contact with in Alberta was giving $2000 discount + the GM credit card ~$1000 at the time + 0% finance but yeah, these were all on 1LE's they probably won't be as generous for SUV's since they sell pretty well

[Ottawaguy2018]

Originally Posted by georgez32

Yup, that steep of a discount was fronted by GM for sure, but previous deal I was offered was not a cash deal, it came with the 0% financing, another dealer I was in contact with in Alberta was giving $2000 discount + the GM credit card ~$1000 at the time + 0% finance but yeah, these were all on 1LE's they probably won't be as generous for SUV's since they sell pretty well

I've talked to a few people in the industry but my main contact is in sales at GM here in Ottawa.

Different deals obviously happen at different times of the year. But he was saying they make their money selling trucks. cars they might make $500 to $2500 on depending on the car.

But they should, they have to stay in business somehow. The company very well may make more then that but i'm talking about how much the dealer makes.