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Old 03-12-2014, 05:30 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Cam#7 View Post
I have no doubt that the Gen6 will be a head turner and different enough that every Gen5 owner will aspire to trade up. The intriguing thing will be the initial model lineup. I don't see a ZL1 appearing. You have to believe the SS will continue in the same role. So do they bring out Z/28 as a track car from the get go. We''ll get a clue by how the Mustang lineup rolls out.

Also would it be worth changing the body style to accomodate a T-Top configuration vesus a convertible. Depends if we don't see a back side glass and do see a wrap-around back glass. This probably would make for better visibility.
Unfortunately the governments air bag regulations have killed our chances of ever seeing a T-top Camaro again.
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Old 03-12-2014, 05:30 PM   #72
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Unfortunately the governments air bag regulations have killed our chances of ever seeing a T-top Camaro again.
How?
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Old 03-12-2014, 06:00 PM   #73
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Any hints as to the engine configurations, HP, Torque, Transmissions ?
That's the million dollar question. Engine configurations should be interesting.

The ATS V6 starts around $40K. Do you sell the same V6 in a Camaro that starts around $24K? Of course, one could argue that GM is already doing that with the current Camaro V6. However, at this point, with the Camaro on a different platform, it's sort of an apples-oranges thing. But moving the Camaro onto the Alpha platform is a game-changer. Now all of a sudden, you have Camaro on the same platform, built in the same factory... with the same engine, too? At ~$16K less? How does that work?

I mean, sure, the ATS is going to have some more bells and whistles and luxury materials... and maybe some higher-end parts... and the Cadillac brand... but I'm not sure if all that is worth $16K. So, what does GM do?

De-tune the V6 in the Camaro? Not sure how it can do that with the Mustang offering a 300+ hp V6 as a base engine.

Do a base 4-cylinder Camaro? Maybe, but you can't put in some kind of a chump four-banger when the 4 cyl Mustang is 300+ hp turbo.

Suck it up, figure that ATS buyers won't notice or care, and the sell a V6 Alpha Camaro that's an incredible bargain and hope to make the money back on volume? Probably the most likely scenario.
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Old 03-12-2014, 07:35 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by MikeT View Post
That's the million dollar question. Engine configurations should be interesting.

The ATS V6 starts around $40K. Do you sell the same V6 in a Camaro that starts around $24K? Of course, one could argue that GM is already doing that with the current Camaro V6. However, at this point, with the Camaro on a different platform, it's sort of an apples-oranges thing. But moving the Camaro onto the Alpha platform is a game-changer. Now all of a sudden, you have Camaro on the same platform, built in the same factory... with the same engine, too? At ~$16K less? How does that work?

I mean, sure, the ATS is going to have some more bells and whistles and luxury materials... and maybe some higher-end parts... and the Cadillac brand... but I'm not sure if all that is worth $16K. So, what does GM do?

De-tune the V6 in the Camaro? Not sure how it can do that with the Mustang offering a 300+ hp V6 as a base engine.

Do a base 4-cylinder Camaro? Maybe, but you can't put in some kind of a chump four-banger when the 4 cyl Mustang is 300+ hp turbo.

Suck it up, figure that ATS buyers won't notice or care, and the sell a V6 Alpha Camaro that's an incredible bargain and hope to make the money back on volume? Probably the most likely scenario.
Upgraded parts add up real fast. Just look at how much options can add to a vehicle.
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Old 03-12-2014, 07:56 PM   #75
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please be 3,500 lbs +/- V8 model... please oh please oh please....
So you are hoping the Camaro weighs even LESS than an ATS? Add a V8 and the drivetrain capable of handling the HP and torque and you are adding some real weight. I'd guess 100 pounds on top of the upcoming AZS coupe.........at least.


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Oh man oh man, only a year away...

Until you see a picture of a car with Camo from Brenda Priddy you aren't a year away. That first spy photo will start the clock.

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How?
Roof strength and side impact requirements are very tough to meet with no structural connection between the a-pillar and b-pillar. There is a side pole impact test required when you don't have side impact air bags which you will need that structure to meet. And if the car has side impact airbags then they generally deploy from the that strucure.
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Old 03-12-2014, 08:01 PM   #76
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So you are hoping the Camaro weighs even LESS than an ATS? Add a V8 and the drivetrain capable of handling the HP and torque and you are adding some real weight. I'd guess 100 pounds on top of the upcoming AZS coupe.........at least.




Until you see a picture of a car with Camo from Brenda Priddy you aren't a year away. That first spy photo will start the clock.



Roof strength and side impact requirements are very tough to meet with no structural connection between the a-pillar and b-pillar. There is a side pole impact test required when you don't have side impact air bags which you will need that structure to meet. And if the car has side impact airbags then they generally deploy from the that strucure.
Hmm what about the targa top on the Corvette? You only mentioned air bag regulations in your earlier post. Air bag regulations and side impact have nothing to do with it or they couldn't even make a convertible.
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Old 03-12-2014, 08:45 PM   #77
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Hmm what about the targa top on the Corvette? You only mentioned air bag regulations in your earlier post. Air bag regulations and side impact have nothing to do with it or they couldn't even make a convertible.
For some reason the convertible is allowed a pass. The way it was explained to me the only way they would be able to do T-tops is if they could integrate side airbags into the removable part of the top. Practically impossible. It would cost a fortune in engineering to figure it out even if it's possible and then the extra cost for the parts would probably make the option cost more than a convertible. It's a lot easier to just throw in a sunroof and call it a day.
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Old 03-12-2014, 10:34 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by PYROLYSIS View Post
For some reason the convertible is allowed a pass. The way it was explained to me the only way they would be able to do T-tops is if they could integrate side airbags into the removable part of the top. Practically impossible. It would cost a fortune in engineering to figure it out even if it's possible and then the extra cost for the parts would probably make the option cost more than a convertible. It's a lot easier to just throw in a sunroof and call it a day.
Your still forgetting the Targa top on the Corvette. That's really no different than a T-Top in how side airbags would work. Right?
In fact I really don't think there is a requirement for side air bags yet. Not all cars have them.
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Old 03-12-2014, 10:58 PM   #79
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Your still forgetting the Targa top on the Corvette. That's really no different than a T-Top in how side airbags would work. Right?
In fact I really don't think there is a requirement for side air bags yet. Not all cars have them.
That's just the little bit about the issue that I know. There's a Ttop thread on here somewhere that explains it all. I have no clue about the Corvette.
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Old 03-13-2014, 10:22 AM   #80
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So who is getting fired for talking about the 6th gen Camaro or letting a blabber mouth see it first so he can talk about it.
I'm sure its very carefully calculated by Chevy. Let a little teaser out to keep our appetites wetted, but don't give anything concrete away.
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Old 03-13-2014, 10:31 AM   #81
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Unfortunately the governments air bag regulations have killed our chances of ever seeing a T-top Camaro again.
Not sure I understand why. If you can make it work when you remove the whole roof, why can't it work with only a portion removed?
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Old 03-13-2014, 12:52 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by PYROLYSIS View Post
For some reason the convertible is allowed a pass. The way it was explained to me the only way they would be able to do T-tops is if they could integrate side airbags into the removable part of the top. Practically impossible. It would cost a fortune in engineering to figure it out even if it's possible and then the extra cost for the parts would probably make the option cost more than a convertible. It's a lot easier to just throw in a sunroof and call it a day.
It was explained in this forum at one time when the first Gen5 Camaro convertible came out. Many years ago safety laws were changed for convertibles. Maybe the targa roof models got classified as convertible status.
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Old 03-13-2014, 06:15 PM   #83
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Hmm what about the targa top on the Corvette? You only mentioned air bag regulations in your earlier post. Air bag regulations and side impact have nothing to do with it or they couldn't even make a convertible.
Airbags wasn't my earlier post.

Targa on the Corvette is considered a convertible by the Federal standards. Convertibles are exempt. So yes, they can make convertibles.

If you would like to read the standards let me know and I'll post links. I've done in the past when this comes up.
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Old 03-13-2014, 06:20 PM   #84
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Your still forgetting the Targa top on the Corvette. That's really no different than a T-Top in how side airbags would work. Right?
In fact I really don't think there is a requirement for side air bags yet. Not all cars have them.
And when you don't have them, you have to do the pole side impact test. At least that was the rule a few years ago.



Don't get me wrong, almost anything is possible with enough money and enough structure (read that as mass).

It's just very, very, very, very, hard.

But the Government at least recognizes the importance of roof structure in meeting roof strength and side impact and also realizes people want convertibles so excludes them from the rules.
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