09-01-2012, 09:04 PM | #57 | |
Hail to the King baby!
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Also I hope when you make these statements that you do so knowing Ford got every break GM did except a no strike clause from the UAW simply by threatening to also go bankrupt too don't you?
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09-01-2012, 09:46 PM | #58 | |
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I know exactly what it would look like. Efficient companies who didn't pay their executives eight and nine figure salaries for poor performance, and didn't have union millstones around their necks, would have bought the profitable pieces of the company in bankruptcy, taken their market share, and the taxpayers would not have lost billions. |
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09-01-2012, 09:55 PM | #59 | ||
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It would probably look like the rest of the world's manufacturing output as a percentage of world GDP; it would be for the better.
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09-01-2012, 10:04 PM | #60 |
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Ummm, Q1 .39 per share profit, Q2 .30 per share, Q3&4 expected .30. Ford is still making a profit, but European sales are dragging them down along with GM and Fiat.
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09-01-2012, 10:37 PM | #61 |
Banned
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09-01-2012, 10:43 PM | #62 |
Owning SSes for 50 Years
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What's really bad is that all the money the government loaned out, the government borrowed from China. So, who really bailed them out? Dang...that thought sucks!
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09-01-2012, 10:56 PM | #63 |
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Imagine if China really wanted to screw the U.S. they could possible take states or whatever if the U.S. don't pay them back in time.
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09-01-2012, 11:57 PM | #64 |
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No, you must be talking about a different Ford considering Ford Motor Company has posted 11 consecutive profitable quarters.
Last edited by 8cd03gro; 09-02-2012 at 12:15 AM. |
09-02-2012, 12:03 AM | #65 | |
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P.S. I have been drinking heavily. Please disregard any logical and/or grammatical discrepancies Last edited by 8cd03gro; 09-02-2012 at 02:30 AM. |
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09-02-2012, 08:32 AM | #66 | |
Hail to the King baby!
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09-02-2012, 01:42 PM | #67 |
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6 billion < 132 billion and counting.........
I cant believe so many people focus on one minute fact about this, that ford took a loan from the government and ignore every other aspect....so what if ford took a loan from the government....it was 6 billion dollars, not even 20 percent of Fords net worth in 2009.... GM has now taken 132 billion and still counting, this not counting the billions in debt shed from the first bankruptcy, almost 150% of GM's net worth in 2009........how is it even a comparison? Thats like saying when confronted about stealing a car, the thief starts into a rant about oh ya, that little kid over there stole a pack of gum...... A company borrowing up to 20% of its net worth to build and inprove is a healthy company. A company borrowing 150% of its net worth to just survive is not. |
09-02-2012, 01:45 PM | #68 |
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As of 2009, GM was not bigger than Ford, at least in market share, GM was just under 16% and Ford was just over 15%...if they were bigger per manpower and facilities, that just underscores how horribly they were being managed, if they had more people and resources, and they could only do less than 1% better than Ford, thats the biggest red flag there is.......
ford had as much as 30 billion in loans in 2009, people act as if thats a huge amount? You and they also set it as if Ford should not of had any loans, What company of any size doesnt have loans at any given time? which for your argument makes 30 billion sound like alot. If you take the 6 billion taken for retooling and the other 5 billion for normal business expenses, both of which the other companies had taken loans out for similar things, your only talking 19 billion of extrenous loans. Here is a statement taken from the 2009 reported finacial records. *Ended the year (2009) with $25.5 billion of Automotive gross cash and $34.3 billion in Automotive debt http://media.ford.com/article_displa...ticle_id=31920 So even if they had taken 30 billion out for only cash purposes, they were showing only 9.3 billion in dept, that would be all loans and other projected inclusions such as leases etc. Less than 20% of the companies net worth. Well within most any companies comfort zone and usual status.Ford was actually hiring and openeing a new plant for the retooled eco lineup per the governments requirements. While GM was firing 14 of every 16 employees, getting rid of union pension and medical retirement funds as a desperate bid to shed costs, had sunk to less than 16% of the car market (ford actually went up 1% to 15%), thats including all thier individual lines, such as Chevy, Hummer etc, and filing bankruptcy (we should include the billions they got rid of through the bankruptcy but we dont) as they were over 69 billion in the hole, thats right, almost the whole of thier net worth at the time..the only thing that saved them was over 100 billion in give-me's, and that cost hasnt stopped yet, they are still recieving free money..while Ford was solvent enough to not need even close to that large an influx, even counting the loans you state they got solely for the purpose. So one company gets 29.8 billion, the other gets 100+ billion to survive....which do you consider the stronger company? Considering they had basicly equal amounts of the market share pre bailout, it was Ford no question. Last edited by Rhyder; 09-02-2012 at 02:02 PM. |
09-02-2012, 08:31 PM | #69 |
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It's funny how the defenders of the bailouts act like every single GM job, and all their supplier jobs, would have been lost if they went into normal bankruptcy.
It's as if all the people who were going to buy cars and trucks would suddenly decide to never buy anything again. Ridiculous. Sure, there would have been jobs lost. The inefficient parts of the company would have went under. But guess what? THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED ANYWAY WITH THE TAXPAYER BAILOUT. GM STILL LOST 23 THOUSAND JOBS AND CLOSED 13 PLANTS. You know what the difference is? Government got to pick the winners (UAW) and losers (secured bondholders, salaried employee retirement funds), and THEY USED YOUR TAX MONEY TO DO IT. It's truly sad that so many Americans swallow the propaganda and happily let government take their money for political paybacks. |
09-03-2012, 08:24 PM | #70 | ||
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