[crysalis_01]

Originally Posted by SSEssence

Good looking Camaro I mean Mustang, but for the price it is not worth the squeeze by any means.

This is 100% the case. Ford knows it can ask their MSRP because they're in a "What other option do you have?" situation with their buyers. And as the saying goes, something is only worth what someone will pay for it. People with more money than sense, will indeed pay these absurd prices. Camaro was obviously the value buy here, no one can deny that, but I don't think Ford even looked at Camaro anymore after say, 2020. It wasn't being updated anymore, it's sales numbers were already in decline, and with that, it's market share of the segment was dwindling.

Looking at their current, and moving forward, performance coupe competition, one can see that the pricing really isn't out of the "ordinary" for such vehicles.
*All examples are MSRP + delivery/destination.

400Z
Sport - $42,085
Performance - $52,085
Proto Spec - $56,380

GR Supra
2.0 - $45,735
3.0 - $54,695
3.0 Premium - $59,040
A91-MT - $61,735

2-Series
230i - $39,795
M240i - $50,695
M2 - $64,195

4-Series
430i - $50,895
M440i - $62,445
M4 - $79,095
M4 Competition - $83,195

Mustang
Ecoboost - $33,160 (Premium - $38,685)
GT - $44,735 (Premium - $49,255)
Dark Horse - $61,510 (Premium $65,505)

[david_acm]

Saw a video about some dude who said he placed an order and put down a deposit for a Dark Horse with some options at 73k with 0 markup in California.

A week later the dealer calls back and says they can't do anything less than a 30k markup.

[crysalis_01]

What's worse is that even if he doesn't pay it, some moron will. It's the only thing that keeps these dealers pulling this stuff.

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

What's worse is that even if he doesn't pay it, some moron will. It's the only thing that keeps these dealers pulling this stuff.

I blame the moron that pays it more than the dealer. If people would just be patient mark ups wouldn’t exist. I’m convinced the people that pay these markups were handed all kinds of toys when growing up and were never taught how to properly car shop.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by Joshinator99

This^^^

Would have given Chevy a perfect weapon to go head to head with the GT500…but that makes too much sense…

The ZL1 already goes head to head just fine against the GT500, except at acceleration above 70 mph, the GT500 has the advantage. Everything else is equal or better in the ZL1 (grip, handling, braking, etc.).

Originally Posted by Big Swole

All the bench racing aside, I've always come back to this when it comes to "which would beat what" convo's...

My point?? I bought the SS 1LE in 6MT, not because it would be the quickest around a track, but because it's the car I liked the look of and driving experience the most. I could have bought the ZL1 but went with the less powerful car on purpose for the "fun" of it. I have another very fast car so the ZL1 would have been redundant.

Nothing redundant about having two very fast cars, esp when they are so different. But, to each their own.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by david_acm

Saw a video about some dude who said he placed an order and put down a deposit for a Dark Horse with some options at 73k with 0 markup in California.

A week later the dealer calls back and says they can't do anything less than a 30k markup.

This is insanity. Even CFTP GT500s can be had for less than that now.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Oh, and to pile onto the weight gain: C&D tested the 2024 Mustang Ecoboost A10: 3,812 lbs!! Nearly as heavy as an M6 ZLE and heavier than all SS Camaros, regardless of trim. The auto V6 Camaro weighs 3,441 lbs (also tested by C&D). The Mustang is a good example of compromised engineering.

Not to mention that V6 Camaro trapped 104 mph (in 2016) to the new Mustang’s 103 mph.

[Joshinator99]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

The ZL1 already goes head to head just fine against the GT500, except at acceleration above 70 mph, the GT500 has the advantage. Everything else is equal or better in the ZL1 (grip, handling, braking, etc.).



Nothing redundant about having two very fast cars, esp when they are so different. But, to each their own.

LOL… 1/4 mile timeslips would like to have a chat with you

[Kamero6]

I was reading some opionions on it.

There's the whole controversy of not being tune friendly, double throttle body, carbon traps and etc...

Apparently the throttle bodies are controlled by MAF readings.

Also there are power gains but 2023 GT could use 87 octane and the 2024 requires 91 or higher...

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by Joshinator99

LOL… 1/4 mile timeslips would like to have a chat with you

Yeah. 1/4 mile is included in the “acceleration above 70 mph” category.

[Joshinator99]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

Yeah. 1/4 mile is included in the “acceleration above 70 mph” category.

Last I checked, acceleration above 70 MPH was fairly important…

Also, since you brought it up, the GT500 is faster than the ZL1 UNDER 70 too, clocking in 3.2 second 0-60 time vs 3.5 for the ZL1. So if we’re keeping score, it’s faster below 70 and faster over 70 too.
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/ford...-shelby-gt500/
https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2...t-test-review/

[Joshinator99]

Originally Posted by Kamero6

I was reading some opionions on it.

There's the whole controversy of not being tune friendly, double throttle body, carbon traps and etc...

Apparently the throttle bodies are controlled by MAF readings.

Also there are power gains but 2023 GT could use 87 octane and the 2024 requires 91 or higher...

Guys have already launched the carbon trap with no tune needed. Did the same on my wife’s new ‘22 GT Premium.

Tune is already cracked, FYI. Whipple has a tune for their upcoming blower already. The tune will be available much more quickly than the C8 one was. So that’s not an issue. Now the weight on the other hand, not great lol.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by Joshinator99

Last I checked, acceleration above 70 MPH was fairly important…

Also, since you brought it up, the GT500 is faster than the ZL1 UNDER 70 too, clocking in 3.2 second 0-60 time vs 3.5 for the ZL1. So if we’re keeping score, it’s faster below 70 and faster over 70 too.
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/ford...-shelby-gt500/
https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2...t-test-review/

The GT500 never went 0-60 in 3.2 sec in any magazine texts, which test on unprepped asphalt.

C&D:
0-60:
Base GT500: 3.4 sec
CFTP GT500: 3.6 sec
ZL1 A10: 3.4 sec (which is actually 3.3 sec with their current 1-ft rollout method)
1/4: 11.5 vs 11.3. Street surface they are pretty close in the 1/4. Granted the GT500 is moving faster, hence the acceleration above 70 mph category.

Motortrend:
Base GT500: 3.7 sec
CFTP GT500: 3.6 sec
ZL1: 3.5 sec

Also, in C&D’s test for time splits from 30-50 and 50-70, a test that includes the time it takes the transmission to kick down and then the car accelerate in the split, the ZL1 went 1.8 and 2.1 sec, and the GT500 went 1.9 and 2.2 sec. I believe the A10 in the ZL1 kicks down a little quicker than the GT500.

But yeah, the GT500 traps higher in the 1/4.

[Joshinator99]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

The GT500 never went 0-60 in 3.2 sec in any magazine texts, which test on unprepped asphalt.

C&D:
0-60:
Base GT500: 3.4 sec
CFTP GT500: 3.6 sec
ZL1 A10: 3.4 sec (which is actually 3.3 sec with their current 1-ft rollout method)
1/4: 11.5 vs 11.3. Street surface they are pretty close in the 1/4. Granted the GT500 is moving faster, hence the acceleration above 70 mph category.

Motortrend:
Base GT500: 3.7 sec
CFTP GT500: 3.6 sec
ZL1: 3.5 sec

Also, in C&D’s test for time splits from 30-50 and 50-70, a test that includes the time it takes the transmission to kick down and then the car accelerate in the split, the ZL1 went 1.8 and 2.1 sec, and the GT500 went 1.9 and 2.2 sec. I believe the A10 in the ZL1 kicks down a little quicker than the GT500.

But yeah, the GT500 traps higher in the 1/4.

I just posted the magazine links so not sure what you mean…? Same magazine tested both cars for the numbers I posted.

I’ll take the extra 110 HP and better blower with way less heat soak. The GT500 will give you the same performance, back to back, since the 2650 blower is superior to the 1740. If you love road course work I can see the attraction the ZL1, but most people don’t and will take the faster & more powerful car. I love the Alpha chassis…so much that I have way more money into it than I’ll admit but it definitely performs. But the GT500 is a heck of a car…simply a better platform for big power. Guess it depends how far down the rabbit hole you plan on going.