[docwra]

Originally Posted by Capricio

Great! sounds like EVs are at a point they can sell themselves and displace ICE vehicles on their own merits, without subsidies, government incentives, or regulations driving out competing technologies, then.

Far from it, they are still too expensive, the charging network isnt extensive enough and superchargers are pricey to use.

But why hate on it as a concept? No-one is forcing anyone to buy EVs and its undeniable they have some advantages over ICE cars, even if you ignore the environmental aspects mine is costing 30% what an ICE version would in fuel.

But the anti-EV rhetoric still rolls on, in the last couple of posts theres someone claiming EVs arent selling when global EV sales are 18% of market share, the Model Y is the best selling car and EVs are on course to outsell ICEs in Europe by 2027.

Im not claiming they are "The Solution", or everyone should replace their ICE cars but its wrong to claim they arent popular, clean or capable.

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by docwra

Far from it, they are still too expensive, the charging network isnt extensive enough and superchargers are pricey to use.

But why hate on it as a concept? No-one is forcing anyone to buy EVs and its undeniable they have some advantages over ICE cars, even if you ignore the environmental aspects mine is costing 30% what an ICE version would in fuel.

The regulatory state kind of *IS* forcing us to buy EVs, if we get any form of personal transportation at all, going forward. They are doing it in a phased approach, but it's definitely happening. Enjoy your brief honeymoon with low KWH rates while it lasts. As gas tax revenue drops, GVWs get heavier, and electrical grid infrastructure needs increase, it won't last.

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Originally Posted by docwra

...global EV sales are 18% of market share, the Model Y is the best selling car and EVs are on course to outsell ICEs in Europe by 2027.

But...

Originally Posted by docwra

Ill happily admit the main reason I bought it was the (heavily subsidised) cost

[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by docwra

Far from it, they are still too expensive, the charging network isnt extensive enough and superchargers are pricey to use.

But why hate on it as a concept? No-one is forcing anyone to buy EVs and its undeniable they have some advantages over ICE cars, even if you ignore the environmental aspects mine is costing 30% what an ICE version would in fuel.

But the anti-EV rhetoric still rolls on, in the last couple of posts theres someone claiming EVs arent selling when global EV sales are 18% of market share, the Model Y is the best selling car and EVs are on course to outsell ICEs in Europe by 2027.

Im not claiming they are "The Solution", or everyone should replace their ICE cars but its wrong to claim they arent popular, clean or capable.

LOL. Right. You won't 'have' to buy an EV, you could always walk, ride a bike or take public transit.

[docwra]

Originally Posted by jamala00

It baffles me why pro EV buyers try to come on a 6th Gen Camaro forum and expect to see Pro EV comments coming from people. Why not just go on an EV forum?? I don't get it...

Im here because I own a Z28, I comment because these discussions are ridiculously one sided .......... exactly what youd expect from a Camaro forum

You may well be right, all this EV bullshit is just so The Man can take more of your hard earned but try looking at it without the oil tinted glasses on.

Whether you believe me or not the cost of renewable power has reduced considerably over the last ~15 years and it continues to reduce, particularly solar panels for personal use - I know at least 5 guys who pay zero in electricity as they sell their excess back to the grid.
The tech is getting cheaper and more efficient all the time, this cant be said for conventional power generation.

The cost of EVs is also reducing rapidly - the cheapest new EV here costs less than the equivalent VW Golf - and the subsidies given to business buyers are filtering through, a 2016 Model X can be picked for 30% of original list price.

5 years ago Id have probably made the same arguments against EV's that you are.
But I also think Europe is about 5 years further down the EV road than the US, and a lot can change in 5 years particularly when youre talking about environmental technology.

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by jamala00

It baffles me why pro EV buyers try to come on a 6th Gen Camaro forum and expect to see Pro EV comments coming from people. Why not just go on an EV forum?? I don't get it...

We need to be saved from misinformation, and do our part to save the planet through strip mining cobalt in central Africa with child labor and buying green energy solar panels fabricated using coal-fire energy sources from China, to spur the imaginary economy of carbon credits.

[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by Capricio

We need to be saved from misinformation, and do our part to save the planet through strip mining cobalt in central Africa with child labor and buying green energy solar panels fabricated using coal-fire energy sources from China, to spur the imaginary economy of carbon credits.

Preach.

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by docwra

But I also think Europe is about 5 years further down the EV road than the US, and a lot can change in 5 years particularly when youre talking about environmental technology.

...a lot can change as the regulatory state and environmental fearmongering gain momentum, too. People are rightfully wary about the state of EV tech as it sits now, the OEMs are out ahead their skis right now. Market corrections are coming, and people like me are taking a "wait and see" approach. Can you at least appreciate that some people don't want to be forced down a path, feeling like we're losing our ability to choose as consumers? The distances and temperatures at play in the western United States make EVs impractical in many ways.

[crysalis_01]

Originally Posted by Capricio

...a lot can change as the regulatory state and environmental fearmongering gain momentum, too. People are rightfully wary about the state of EV tech as it sits now, the OEMs are out ahead their skis right now. Market corrections are coming, and people like me are taking a "wait and see" approach. Can you at least appreciate that some people don't want to be forced down a path, feeling like we're losing our ability to choose as consumers? The distances and temperatures at play in the western United States make EVs impractical in many ways.

An issue with Market Corrections is, in the case of late-stage capitalism, most people are okay with a surface level "appearance" of choice, even when it doesn't really exist. Like how most consumer goods these days are all produced by only a handful of corporations. But they all come with different labels and "appear" to compete with one another, but in the end, all the cash ends up in the purses of the same corporations regardless of which "decision" one makes.


But I'll digress, lest we drift too far from the core topic of the thread at hand.

[docwra]

Originally Posted by Capricio

...a lot can change as the regulatory state and environmental fearmongering gain momentum, too. People are rightfully wary about the state of EV tech as it sits now, the OEMs are out ahead their skis right now

Full agree, certainly possible that it could go down the road to overregulation, price increases and no other options on offer - the point is we dont know yet.
Experience here is more are being sold as more people come into contact with them and costs are reducing, they are rapidly gaining popularity.
Dismissing EVs out of hand because of "what ifs" seems a bit shortsighted to me.

Market corrections are coming, and people like me are taking a "wait and see" approach. Can you at least appreciate that some people don't want to be forced down a path, feeling like we're losing our ability to choose as consumers? The distances and temperatures at play in the western United States make EVs impractical in many ways.

Again, yep, totally. I waited until I was happy that the tech/infrastructure/costs worked for me before biting the bullet and
Id advise everyone to do the same. EVs arent going to be right for everyone but as they develop they are becoming more realistic for more people - by contrast ICE is not developing, were stuck with what weve got.

Like I said, 5 years ago Id have rejected an EV out of hand, I now own one.
Id also reiterate I reckon the US is about 5 years behind the UK in the EV game, probably due to distances and cheap gas prices as much as anything else. I think we are a long way off (and you guys even further) being forced into EVs.

Would be interesting to come back and have the same discussion in a few years time, by then we will probably be having the same argument about Hydrogen though

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by docwra

Dismissing EVs out of hand because of "what ifs" seems a bit shortsighted to me.

I want to see EVs compete in marketplace without subsidies and regulations killing off competing technologies. If it's so great, let it stand on its own. It'll never happen, but these obvious crutches lead skeptics like me to lack confidence in it.

Originally Posted by docwra

by contrast ICE is not developing, were stuck with what weve got.

ICE development has been focused on increasingly hard to meet emissions regulations, not competing against performance metrics or other ICE competitive offerings. VVT, DoD, DI... and emerging crank geometries, all became mainstream in the last 10-15 years. Experimental valve technologies were maturing. oh well, Al Gore made a movie saying we'd all be underwater now so we'll never find out, I guess.

Originally Posted by docwra

Like I said, 5 years ago Id have rejected an EV out of hand, I now own one.
Id also reiterate I reckon the US is about 5 years behind the UK in the EV game, probably due to distances and cheap gas prices as much as anything else. I think we are a long way off (and you guys even further) being forced into EVs.

Like I said, phased incremental approach, but it's happening, by force through regulating what the OEMs can offer us. I'm sure you know that gasoline could be much cheaper than it is, in europe and the US. That's a policy issue more than supply issue. All this talk of cheap KWH and expensive gasoline is just more regulatory/policy manipulation, not proof of the cost effectiveness of EVs. It's a poor argument, IMHO, at least under current conditions.

Originally Posted by docwra

Would be interesting to come back and have the same discussion in a few years time, by then we will probably be having the same argument about Hydrogen though

Unless you can crack Hydrogen atoms from H20 molecules and store them safely from home, like an EV charging station, i don't see much potential for widespread adoption. Too much energy making it, too hard to store and transport, too flammable, etc.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

EVs just don’t stir my soul like a good internal combustion engine. I don’t care about a 1900 hp Rimac Nevera any more than a Tesla. My heart tells me they’re all the same gimmick underneath or varying capacities with differing sheetmetal. The engine is the soul of a car.