Will A Tune Void My Warranty?

[Bodywerks]

But it only knows that it has been flashed, right? It Doesn't know what changes were made.
Still, I would not expect GM to warranty anything that was likely caused by a tune, anyway. And I'm my own mechanic and I want more power, so looks like I'm risking it!
By the way, Chase, it looks like you have everything I need except SCT. Any reason you don't carry them?

[Apex Motorsports]

Originally Posted by Bodywerks

But it only knows that it has been flashed, right? It Doesn't know what changes were made.
Still, I would not expect GM to warranty anything that was likely caused by a tune, anyway. And I'm my own mechanic and I want more power, so looks like I'm risking it!
By the way, Chase, it looks like you have everything I need except SCT. Any reason you don't carry them?

They know that they didn't do it and that is all they care about.

[hiddenangels89]

Originally Posted by markgws6

Maybe I should restate my question. (I was not meaning a denial for damage to something that (could have) been directly tune related like an over-rev condition. I mean, has anyone gone in for warranty work of ANY kind and been denied repair "because" of a tune, regardless of what the issue was or whether they paid to get it repaired? I just want to know the statistical numbers of people being denied repair work at the dealer because of a tune. I think our engine (LS3) is pretty stout out of the box but I have heard of two people on this forum already having engine problems and having to pay to get them fixed btw. One of them had his engine modified, rebuilt, and tuned (so he did not even try to get it fixed under warranty) and the other I forget if he was tuned or not but his engine broke at the track and I forget if his was tuned or not, but I don't think it was. Both were LS3 1LE cars like mine.

I suggest a poll question in another / separate thread.

1) Has your Camaro been tuned? (y/n)
2) if so, have you gone in for warranty work? (y/n/na)
3) if so, was it denied? (y/n/na)

This would be a beneficial thread to a LOT of people.. kinda gives people an outlook of what they have to worry about. then you can ask for details in the thread comments below.

I haven't posted a poll question, wonder how many questions you can ask in it...

[hiddenangels89]

nice write up!

i like how you take the time to post these types of detailed write ups (if no one else has told you).

[Apex Motorsports]

Originally Posted by hiddenangels89

nice write up!

i like how you take the time to post these types of detailed write ups (if no one else has told you).

Thank you.

[Ryanjay25]

I have a similar question. Many insurance companies are offering mechanical breakdown insurance, which is basically a little more comprehensive form of an extended warranty. Much be purchased before 12,000 miles and is good until 100,000. From what I've gathered so far, if an aftermarket part causes a failure with another part of your engine, the aftermarket part itself would not be covered but the damage caused by it would be covered.

My question is: How would this coverage apply to a tune? Obviously a tune is a bit different than bolting on some aftermarket parts. Does anyone have any insight or first hand knowledge of how a tune would affect this coverage?

[hiddenangels89]

Originally Posted by Ryanjay25

I have a similar question. Many insurance companies are offering mechanical breakdown insurance, which is basically a little more comprehensive form of an extended warranty. Much be purchased before 12,000 miles and is good until 100,000. From what I've gathered so far, if an aftermarket part causes a failure with another part of your engine, the aftermarket part itself would not be covered but the damage caused by it would be covered.

My question is: How would this coverage apply to a tune? Obviously a tune is a bit different than bolting on some aftermarket parts. Does anyone have any insight or first hand knowledge of how a tune would affect this coverage?

If you're insurance is willing to write it, ask for the exclusions or a specimen policy. No one else would really be able to provide this type of information and the exclusions would tell you how a tune would affect the coverage or what extensive motor work would could be done to be eligible.

[Apex Motorsports]

Originally Posted by Ryanjay25

I have a similar question. Many insurance companies are offering mechanical breakdown insurance, which is basically a little more comprehensive form of an extended warranty. Much be purchased before 12,000 miles and is good until 100,000. From what I've gathered so far, if an aftermarket part causes a failure with another part of your engine, the aftermarket part itself would not be covered but the damage caused by it would be covered.

My question is: How would this coverage apply to a tune? Obviously a tune is a bit different than bolting on some aftermarket parts. Does anyone have any insight or first hand knowledge of how a tune would affect this coverage?

That is incorrect. If the issue in question is the result of an aftermarket part or modification then they hold no responsibility whatsoever. As far as GM is concerned, tuning voids the drive train warranty all together.

[Rocky1974]

Service Information

2011 Chevrolet Camaro | Camaro VIN F Service Manual | Document ID: 2519676
#09-06-04-026C: Identifying Non-GM (Aftermarket) Engine and Transmission Calibrations for V8 Gas Engines Using Tech 2 or Global Diagnostic System (GDS) - (Aug 13, 2010)

Subject:Identifying Non-GM (Aftermarket) Engine and Transmission Calibrations for V8 Gas Engines Using Tech 2® or Global Diagnostic System (GDS)

Models:2006-2011 GM Passenger Cars and Light Duty Trucks (Excluding Saab 9-7X)

2006-2009 HUMMER H2

2006-2010 HUMMER H3
Equipped with V8 Gas Powered Engines Only

Attention:

This bulletin applies to V8 gas powered engines ONLY. For Duramax™ diesel powered engines, refer to the latest version of Corporate Bulletin Number 08-06-04-006G.

This bulletin is being revised to add the 2011 model year. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 09-06-04-026A (Section 06 - Engine/Propulsion System).
General Motors is identifying an increasing number of engine, transmission and catalytic converter part failures that are the result of non-GM (aftermarket) engine and transmission control calibrations being used.
When alteration to the GM-released engine or transmission control calibrations occurs, it subjects powertrain and driveline components (engine , transmission, transfer case, driveshaft and rear axle) to stresses that were not tested by General Motors. It is because of these unknown stresses, and the potential to alter reliability, durability and emissions performance, that GM has adopted a policy that prevents any UNAUTHORIZED dealer warranty claim submissions to any remaining warranty coverage, to the powertrain and driveline components whenever the presence of a non-GM (aftermarket) calibration is confirmed - even if the non-GM control module calibration is subsequently removed.
Warranty coverage is based on the equipment and calibrations that were released on the vehicle at time of sale, or subsequently updated by GM. That’s because GM testing and validation matches the calibration to a host of criteria that is essential to assure reliability, durability and emissions performance over the life of the warranty coverage and beyond. Stresses resulting from calibrations different from those tested and released by GM can damage or weaken components, leading to poor performance and or shortened life.
Additionally, non-GM (aftermarket) issued engine control modifications often do not meet the same emissions performance standards as GM issued calibrations. Depending on state statutes, individuals who install engine control module calibrations that put the vehicle outside the parameters of emissions certification standards may be subject to fines and/or penalties.
This bulletin outlines a procedure to identify the presence of non-GM (aftermarket) calibrations. GM recommends performing this check whenever a hard part failure is seen on internal engine or transmission components, or before an engine assembly or transmission assembly is being replaced under warranty. It is also recommended that the engine calibration verification procedure be performed whenever diagnostics indicate that catalytic converter replacement is indicated.
The PQC has a process to confirm the ECM/PCM calibration is GM issued. The PQC will require a picture of the engine calibration verification screen, as outlined in this bulletin, before authorizing any V8 gas powered engine replacement.

If a non-GM calibration is found and verification has taken place through GM, the remaining powertrain and driveline warranty will be blocked and notated in GMVIS and the dealership will be notified. This block prevents any UNAUTHORIZED warranty claim submission.

Connect the Tech 2® to the vehicle. <Go to: Diagnostics and build the vehicle. Select: Powertrain. Select: Engine. *Select: Engine Control Module or PCM. *Select: Module ID Information or I/M Information System if the Module ID Information selection is not available. *If "I/M information System" was selected, it may be necessary to select "Vehicle Information" in order to display the calibration information.

⇒If the CVN information is displayed as "N/A", it will be necessary to contact the TCSC (1-800-828-XXXX English or 1-800-503-XXXX French) to obtain the CVN information.

Take a CLEAR digital picture of the Tech 2® Vehicle Information screen showing the engine Calibration IDs and Verification Numbers as shown above. Retain the printout information and the Tech 2® screen photograph with the repair order. Note: All pictures must be sent as a.jpg file.
E-mail a copy of the picture to. In the subject line of the e-mail include the phrase "V8 Cal" as well as the complete VIN and Dealer BAC. In the body of the e-mail, include the VIN, mileage, R.O. number and BAC. Include a brief description of the customer concern and cause of the concern. Note: The dealer will receive an e-mail reply after the calibrations have been validated. The e-mail reply will advise the dealer if the calibrations are OEM.

Allow two hours for the PQC to verify the calibrations and set up the case details.

⇒If the PQC determines that the calibrations ARE aftermarket calibrations, DO NOT contact GM Technical Assistance to discuss warranty concerns on the aftermarket calibrations. ALL questions and concerns about warranty should be directed to the dealers Fixed Operations Manager (FOM), (Warranty Manager (WM) in Canada).

You may call the PQC two hours after submitting the e-mail for authorization to replace the assembly. This will provide them time to receive, review and set up a case on the request. Please be prepared to provide all the usual documentation that is normally required when requesting an assembly authorization from the PQC.

Tech 2® Displaying All Zeroes for the Verification Numbers on the Calibration ID and Verification Number Screen

If the Tech 2® that you are using displays all zeroes for the Verification Numbers as shown, then perform the following steps:

Update the Tech 2® with the latest software from TIS2WEB. Turn OFF the ignition for 90 seconds. Connect the Tech 2® to the vehicle.

Turn ON the ignition, and build the vehicle. Observe the Tech 2® Calibration ID and Verification Number screen for proper operation.

⇒If the Tech 2® screen still does not display properly, then turn OFF the ignition for 90 seconds again. Turn ON the ignition and observe the same screen for proper operation.

Retrieving Calibrations From a Global A Vehicle

This information applies to the 2010 Camaro and is typical of the procedure that will be used on Global A vehicles.

Turn OFF the ignition. Connect the MDI to the Data Link Connector (DLC) of the vehicle. Note: Use the USB port to make the following MDI connection:

Connect the MDI to a PC or laptop that has been downloaded with the GDS application from TIS2WEB. Note: At least one Diagnostic Package must be installed on the PC to perform diagnostics.

If GDS was just installed, select: Add New Diagnostic Package and then select: a Diagnostic Package to download.

Click: On the GDS icon on the PC. The Login Page will appear. Select: A User. The ID Screen will appear. Select: The serial number of the MDI being used. Select: Connect. Verify that the system status is ready by observing for a flashing PC light icon on the MDI. Select: Make, Model and Model Year, in order to build the vehicle. Click: Upload VIN, to allow the VIN to be reported to the PC. At: The Verification step, turn ON the ignition, with the engine OFF. Select: Next Action. The Home Page will appear. Select: Next. The Diagnostic Screen will appear. Note: Due to vehicle build, software and RPO variations, GDS may ask for additional information in Step 18.

Select: Engine ID, if prompted. Select: Module Diagnostics. Select: ECM. Select: ID Information. The Diagnostics page will appear.

Note: GDS is capable of displaying up to 10 Calibration History events.

Select: Calibration History from the drop down menu in order to display the following items on the screen: Calibration History Buffer

Number of Calibration History Events Stored

Calibration Part Number History

Calibration Verification Number History

Select: Screenshot. Name and save the file in an appropriate folder. Select : Print, and retain a copy of the screenshot with the repair order. Note: All pictures must be sent as a.jpg file.
E-mail a copy of the screenshot. In the subject line of the e-mail include the phrase "V8 Cal" as well as the complete VIN and Dealer BAC. In the body of the e-mail, include the VIN, mileage, R.O. number and BAC. Include a brief description of the customer concern and cause of the concern. Note: The dealer will receive an e-mail reply after the calibrations have been validated. The e-mail reply will advise the dealer if the calibrations are OEM.

Allow two hours for the PQC to verify the calibrations and set up the case details.

⇒If the PQC determines that the calibrations ARE aftermarket calibrations, DO NOT contact GM Technical Assistance to discuss warranty concerns on the aftermarket calibrations. ALL questions and concerns about warranty should be directed to the dealers Fixed Operations Manager (FOM), (Warranty Manager (WM) in Canada).

You may call the PQC two hours after submitting the e-mail for authorization to replace the assembly. This will provide them time to receive, review and set up a case on the request. Please be prepared to provide all the usual documentation that is normally required when requesting an assembly authorization from the PQC.

Warranty Information

• The Dealership Service Management must be involved in any situation that would justify the use of labor operation Z1111.
• Notify the Fixed Operations Manager (FOM) (Warranty Manager (WM) in Canada) of the situation.
• All claims will have to be routed to the FOM (WM in Canada) for approval.
• Please refer to Corporate Bulletin Number 09-00-89-016, Labor Operation Z1111 - Suspected Tampering or Vehicle Modifications for important information.

For vehicles repaired under warranty, use:
Labor Operation
Description
Labor Time
Z1111
Suspected Tampering or Vehicle Modifications
0.2 hr
GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information.

WE SUPPORT VOLUNTARY TECHNICIAN CERTIFICATION
© 2011 General Motors. All rights reserved.

[Rocky1974]

A couple of thoughts.

ANY changes to the Powertrain Control Module calibrations will require a re-flash. GM's procedure looks for any unauthorized re-flash, not what specific parameters were changed and they are NOT going to go through it line by line to figure out exactly what was changed. So, it makes no difference whither you just turned off AFM, recalibrated your speedometer, or removed the top speed limiter, it requires re-flash and voids your warranty, as far as GM is concerned. It also makes no difference whither you do it with a handheld tuner or use HP tuners, it's still doing a re-flash. And restoring the original tune before you take it in will accomplish exactly nothing either. It's just going to prove to them that you knew you were voiding the warranty, when you flashed it the first time.

The GM tune has been certified by GM to meet federal and state EPA emissions standards. Altering it is considered tampering with an emission control device and is against federal and most states law. I doubt the EPA or your state is going to prosecute you for having your car tuned, but I doubt that you will get very far with GM by claiming that they are violating the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act by not warranting your car, when their position is that you voided your warranty by violating the law, in the first place.

The bottom line is that, if you make ANY changes to the PCM, you have technically voided your powertrain warranty. That doesn't necessarily mean you won't get anything fixed, but it does mean that you will be at their mercy and won't have a leg to stand on, if they deny a warranty claim.

[Apex Motorsports]

Great info Rocky.

[CRF8]

Agree with Rocky, and thanks for the GM document: except I
Don't know of a federal law that prohibits consumers from altering pollution controls on their car. If there is one, it may be regulatory only with no criminal penalty. Neither the manufacturer nor the store can remove my new mattress tag, but I can


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[ToolFan66]

My 5yr warranty ends in Dec, I did'nt want to wait till next spring so I did the full exhaust, and a tune this last week..

Now I don't have to worry about my warranty, and the car sounds and runs better..

[Apex Motorsports]

Originally Posted by ToolFan66

My 5yr warranty ends in Dec, I did'nt want to wait till next spring so I did the full exhaust, and a tune this last week..

Now I don't have to worry about my warranty, and the car sounds and runs better..