[ilirg]

Originally Posted by Denis

I haven't heard anything new about the cooling issue lately. I remember it happened at a track event once but as far as I knew that was it. has it been an ongoing issue with other vehicles?

Nope, besides the anamoly at road Atlanta, people tracking their z06's have not had any heating issues what so ever. Tuners are reporting IAT are actually on the low side considering the super charger.

[SPCBA]

Gm is really worried about illegal street racing videos from texas freeways...

[NASTY99Z28]

Originally Posted by ilirg

Right so in a thread about horsepower you bring up the Z06, a car built for the track ( that has also proved better quarter mile times than the hellcat ) I guess according to you, horsepower is only meant for going straight. And I'm the one who can't follow

The vette was brought up for two reasons.
1. It's has the lt4 that some think will be enough in a 6th gen camaro to beat or keep up with the hellcat. Even though it will be heavier then a vette.
2. Because it's the highest horsepower car gm offers against dodges highest horsepower car. (In a thread about HORSEPOWER)
Maybe you should stick to childish insults cause you clearly have no clue.

Originally Posted by SuperSound

Just want to be clear, I'm not trying to insult you but I do enjoy a heated debate.

The Corvette has won Le Mans in 2001, 2002, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2009, and 2011. Viper has not won since 2000, the first year the Corvette returned to racing (in which in place 3rd and 4th first time out). So no, the Viper is not impressive in racing.

Never said the viper was better. Someone else said dodge doesn't build any track cars and that's false.
They can use whatever excuse they want to justify racing from a roll rather than a stop, the truth is it removes the only part of drag racing that requires skill…launching. It only became popular in tuner communities because of the issues they already faced traction with FWD. In fact, I find it to be a lame excuse to use of "less wear" on the cars to justify it. It don't matter if you run from a start, roll, or on a dyno...operating a car in it's peak power band causes wear and tear on engine and driveline. So I can guess they are trying to save their tires, which only highlights my point. If you can't launch your car on street tires you do not have enough skill or you have built your car wrong. Power without the ability to put it to use full is a waste. That is my opinion I know, but it's shared by the vast majority of the community because records are set in a standing 1/4....not the rolling 1/2 mile.
While some may not like roll drag racing it happens a lot. Events are popping up all over the place because people enjoy being able to run the higher speeds not offered by standing 1/4 mile runs. Launching is the most violent part of drag racing so yeah it's a lot easier from a roll on most things. With the power of todays cars most people can't properly launch on a true street tire and it's not because they can't drive. 400,500,600,700hp is way more power stock then a basic tire can handle. And records are set in half mile and mile events all the time but because you don't like it you don't recognize it.
Multiple car magazines have shown the Z06 faster in the ¼ than the Hellcat and Viper. Now if there is a issue with cooling on the LT4, it would not show up in these tests since they are not driving down the road then racing. But it does not change the fact the Z06 is faster under correct working conditions. Losing on the street due to a cooling issue preventing the car from reaching its full potential though is something else entirely and GM needs to fix it. I think we can agree on that.

Do you hold mag times over real world times? As for the cooling issue I'm sure many buyers won't notice it but that's probably due to the fact that they aren't fast enough of a driver to yell or can't push the car near it's limits to ever find out. I truly don't know I guess more track time will tell. The spring and summer months will tell us the truth soon enough.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by NASTY99Z28

The vette was brought up for two reasons.
1. It's has the lt4 that some think will be enough in a 6th gen camaro to beat or keep up with the hellcat. Even though it will be heavier then a vette.

The LT4 Vette kills the Hellcat in the 1/4. A 4000 lb LT4 gen 6 Camaro should be in the neighborhood of the Cat and old GT500. Auto Trans in the next Camaro Z car and GT500 should make the Cat look....old fashion and silly

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by NASTY99Z28

Never said the viper was better. Someone else said dodge doesn't build any track cars and that's false.

While some may not like roll drag racing it happens a lot. Events are popping up all over the place because people enjoy being able to run the higher speeds not offered by standing 1/4 mile runs. Launching is the most violent part of drag racing so yeah it's a lot easier from a roll on most things. With the power of todays cars most people can't properly launch on a true street tire and it's not because they can't drive. 400,500,600,700hp is way more power stock then a basic tire can handle. And records are set in half mile and mile events all the time but because you don't like it you don't recognize it.

Do you hold mag times over real world times? As for the cooling issue I'm sure many buyers won't notice it but that's probably due to the fact that they aren't fast enough of a driver to yell or can't push the car near it's limits to ever find out. I truly don't know I guess more track time will tell. The spring and summer months will tell us the truth soon enough.

1. My bad knew it had been brought up and bottom line the Viper is to be respected, just hasn't proven effective in Le Mans.

2. Will definitely agree launching 500+ HP correctly is violent, but street racing is more dangerous than the track. I know some people think they are safe, it won't happen to them....but it frequently does. But I think we all know it's risky. As for that power being more than they can handle, these car seem to disagree

http://jalopnik.com/5940509/the-ten-...rs-in-america/

There are many classes in drag racing specifically for street legal cars. A modern drag radial is capable of handling enormous amounts of power, when the car is built right and the driver knows what he is doing. These cars hanging around on freeways looking to race have had lots of power added, without bothering to improve the ability to use it. That is a simple fact.

3. Yes I do hold magazine results above 2nd hand accounts and videos on youtube as a measure of a car's performance. One, because magazine actually use timing equipment, multiple passes, same driver and track, and different launch techniques. Then I don't use different tests by different magazines and cherry pick the best to compare (because that would introduce even more variables). There are simply too many variables running in the "real world" on the street to use as judge of performance. But that really isn't the reason people race on the street, egos are the biggest reason for that.

[NASTY99Z28]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

1. My bad knew it had been brought up and bottom line the Viper is to be respected, just hasn't proven effective in Le Mans.

2. Will definitely agree launching 500+ HP correctly is violent, but street racing is more dangerous than the track. I know some people think they are safe, it won't happen to them....but it frequently does. But I think we all know it's risky. As for that power being more than they can handle, these car seem to disagree

http://jalopnik.com/5940509/the-ten-...rs-in-america/

There are many classes in drag racing specifically for street legal cars. A modern drag radial is capable of handling enormous amounts of power, when the car is built right and the driver knows what he is doing. These cars hanging around on freeways looking to race have had lots of power added, without bothering to improve the ability to use it. That is a simple fact.

3. Yes I do hold magazine results above 2nd hand accounts and videos on youtube as a measure of a car's performance. One, because magazine actually use timing equipment, multiple passes, same driver and track, and different launch techniques. Then I don't use different tests by different magazines and cherry pick the best to compare (because that would introduce even more variables). There are simply too many variables running in the "real world" on the street to use as judge of performance. But that really isn't the reason people race on the street, egos are the biggest reason for that.

1.Yes drag radials can hold power but I thought we were talking bone stock with stock rubber. Once you add sticky tires then the vette is even more trouble in a drag race or roll race.
2. Not everyone likes street racing but they enoy high spped runs which is why the 1/2 and mile events are becoming so popular. You get the best of both world's. (Safety and high speed pulls)
3. So if regular drivers use the same equipment at the same tracks the magazine s do then doesn't it make them just as credible? I'm sure they also try different launching techniques. And most if not all racing is about ego if not nobody would care because we don't race in honor of the car.

[SPCBA]

Thought hobbiests did their hobby for fun. I get my ass whooped on road courses constantly by superior cars and superior drivers. I am in the wrong hobby for ego strokes.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by NASTY99Z28

1.Yes drag radials can hold power but I thought we were talking bone stock with stock rubber. Once you add sticky tires then the vette is even more trouble in a drag race or roll race.
2. Not everyone likes street racing but they enoy high spped runs which is why the 1/2 and mile events are becoming so popular. You get the best of both world's. (Safety and high speed pulls)
3. So if regular drivers use the same equipment at the same tracks the magazine s do then doesn't it make them just as credible? I'm sure they also try different launching techniques. And most if not all racing is about ego if not nobody would care because we don't race in honor of the car.

Is this the video that started the whole debate?
http://gmauthority.com/blog/2014/12/...highway-video/

1. I brought up drag radials because of your comment about "With the power of todays cars most people can't properly launch on a true street tire and it's not because they can't drive. 400,500,600,700hp is way more power stock then a basic tire can handle. " Clearly you agree then it is not a legitimate excuse for racing standstill vs rolling. I'll give you the wear and tear deal, and will just say anyone who's afraid of wear and tear with their sports car probably didn't "need" to buy it but to each his own.

2. Agreed the ones doing these in sanctioned events are fine, but a lot of it happens on the street as we know.

3. Has nothing to do with credibility, but everything to do with removing the variables. Unless two people are identical, they will not perform the same. The magazines run multiple times with the same driver and post the best time. By comparing them to tests made by the same magazine/driver, you can accurately gauge one car's performance to another. We wouldn't simply take the word of the manufacturer of what their driver did on their test track and compare it to another would we? That would be full of variables.

As for egos and racing, yes....but I am interested in performance which is why I could care less what two random drivers and their cars do out there in the "real world".

btw love the sig quote, that's "the phill" on the mustang6 boards right?

[NASTY99Z28]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

Is this the video that started the whole debate?
http://gmauthority.com/blog/2014/12/...highway-video/
that's one video but I'm speaking more on the drag strip times of private drivers.
1. I brought up drag radials because of your comment about "With the power of todays cars most people can't properly launch on a true street tire and it's not because they can't drive. 400,500,600,700hp is way more power stock then a basic tire can handle. " Clearly you agree then it is not a legitimate excuse for racing standstill vs rolling. I'll give you the wear and tear deal, and will just say anyone who's afraid of wear and tear with their sports car probably didn't "need" to buy it but to each his own.
Stop getting hung up on the "wear and tear" part that's just a reason not the only reason. The roll race draw is big due to the ease of it on the car the driver and not having to dial in the suspension to hook. Oh and guys love running the much higher speeds.
2. Agreed the ones doing these in sanctioned events are fine, but a lot of it happens on the street as we know.
Street racing will never stop. Love it or hated it's still gonna happen and the results are more true than a track day.
3. Has nothing to do with credibility, but everything to do with removing the variables. Unless two people are identical, they will not perform the same. The magazines run multiple times with the same driver and post the best time. By comparing them to tests made by the same magazine/driver, you can accurately gauge one car's performance to another. We wouldn't simply take the word of the manufacturer of what their driver did on their test track and compare it to another would we? That would be full of variables.
So if a magazine only gets a car to run lets say 12.2's but private drivers can rip 11's who is right? Both cars are using the same driver same track. Is it a 12 sec car or a 11 sec car? The faster run shows what the car can do "if" the driver can do what they need to correct?
As for egos and racing, yes....but I am interested in performance which is why I could care less what two random drivers and their cars do out there in the "real world". You gotta get off the magazine guy said so bandwagon. Real world is what matters to any car guy not a magazine.
btw love the sig quote, that's "the phill" on the mustang6 boards right?

yes that's about the phill

[SuperSound]

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2014/12/...highway-video/
that's one video but I'm speaking more on the drag strip times of private drivers.

I believe it was acknowledge that the ECU pulled timing in this video, so car had a problem. Whether this is a real issue with all of the Z06s, I don’t know. Several have commented that it is an isolated event. Either way Viper won. But here’s a video clearly showing the Viper’s time being beat.

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2015/01/...iper-ta-video/

One off? Maybe but looks like there are as many videos out there of a Z06 beating a Viper as the other way around. What does this tell us, these cars are evenly matched and the street does not prove anything.

Stop getting hung up on the "wear and tear" part that's just a reason not the only reason. The roll race draw is big due to the ease of it on the car the driver and not having to dial in the suspension to hook.

That was my exactly my point. Love of high speed sure, but not wanting to dial in the suspension and wear/tear are “cheap” excuses. But that’s my opinion and not yours. So we will agree to disagree.


Street racing will never stop. Love it or hated it's still gonna happen and the results are more true than a track day.

I don’t know about more real than a track day, but they are both results.



So if a magazine only gets a car to run lets say 12.2's but private drivers can rip 11's who is right? Both cars are using the same driver same track. Is it a 12 sec car or a 11 sec car? The faster run shows what the car can do "if" the driver can do what they need to correct?

If this other driver can beat the magazine times, more power to him. But let’s face it, the vast majority of people aren’t as good as the professionals a worldwide auto magazine has to do their tests. It’s the same reason I don’t use a manufacture’s test driver times. I want to see what the same person is able to do, and frankly who else is going to be able to get their hands on all the cars that come out to compare/test them….but an auto magazine.

You gotta get off the magazine guy said so bandwagon. Real world is what matters to any car guy not a magazine.

See above. Cars and drivers break/screw up in the real world, magazines go get another car.

Bottom line, we seem to be the only ones left who care about this thread. Think we should just leave it dead since we both have opinions and can agree to disagree.