Need Help to DeTune My New ZL1 - Page 10 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

G4M3OVR · 04-03-2013, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HighFly27

I don't think... " You All Get It ! " The car gets detuned and it's the No# 1 Plan. I live on narrow, crummy, pot holes, rough... asphalt type roads. My house is in farming area, I live on 1 1/2 miles of a sandy (type) road. This LT1 can not use half it's power.. or it will break loose and dart off into the tree's. I have I-10 about 10 miles away and it's good to go.

So, I will spend time with my Son... teaching him the .. No.. No's about what he can do and Not to Do with a high performance car. It's just stupid to hand him the key's and say.. don't wreck it. I'm a retired Test Pilot/ Instructor and have checked out 100's of test pilots in my 26 years of service. The pilots are trained at the Test Pilot Course and receive their graduation check ride. The newly qualified test pilots report back to their unit and take another check ride with me. Some of the pilots have less then 500 hours of flight time. The pilots are fully qualified, they know all the technical data about the aircraft and fly it 100%. However, they (may) get brain jam when something happens i.e. engine out, flight control's malfunction, etc. . The Brain Jam comes from coping with -- making all the right decisions in a fraction of a second. It's not that uncommon to (I stop the wrong choice) block their intended action to turn --- the good engine off, when the (simulated) bad engine was the correct engine that needed to be selected (they messed up).

Regarding my son or anyone that has Not had High Performance driving experience... it's the smart move to give him better odd's. I've already said, (to him) we'd take the ZL1 to a local drag strip (580 HP) and see what kind of times it will run. Only an fool would try to lay into the power of a ZL1 has on the crummy roads in my home area. The best race car driver in the world could not charge down these cow patch roads and not crash. It would be .... only a matter of time until it darted off in the tree's. Now, handing the keys to my son and saying be careful.. won't do it... he has no idea of what 580 HP does in a micro second.

It's guaranteed that I'll train him up and will reduce his risk's in the ZL1. When, I go to my grave.. I do not expect to roll over.. from not training him right & he knew better. He can still crash & smash but knew that he violated his training. He's the fool that operated outside the envelope of the car (per) -- road conditions, speed to high, etc. (he f_'ed up).

Closing, I've always viewed driving or flying as a personal contest between man & machine. I pit myself against the top speed I can achieve and not lose control and spin out or crash. Driving a car has a lot more variables involved (dirt track car) i.e. set up of the car, tire choice, track condition, HP output that night for temp. & humidity, and most important... race strategy (who your racing against) & how to win against them.

Bold 1: He still won't know how to handle it because by de-tuning it, you're eliminating it's status as a high performance car.
Bold 2: He still won't know if you're teaching him on anything less than the stock 580hp.
Bold 3: He'll be no more trained than if you gave him the keys right now and teach him whatever it is you're gonna teach him with the full 580hp.

In case you didn't grasp it from the rest of the post, I'm essentially saying that by de-tuning the car, you're going to be teaching him how to drive the LT he already had... but with better handling. Teach him however you want, I'm simply trying to help you see the flaws in your logic.

Mr. iNCREDIBLE · 04-03-2013, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G4M3OVR

Bold 1: He still won't know how to handle it because by de-tuning it, you're eliminating it's status as a high performance car.
Bold 2: He still won't know if you're teaching him on anything less than the stock 580hp.
Bold 3: He'll be no more trained than if you gave him the keys right now and teach him whatever it is you're gonna teach him with the full 580hp.

In case you didn't grasp it from the rest of the post, I'm essentially saying that by de-tuning the car, you're going to be teaching him how to drive the LT he already had... but with better handling. Teach him however you want, I'm simply trying to help you see the flaws in your logic.

yeah cause all creatures run before they walk or crawl..

Bhobbs · 04-03-2013, 07:34 PM

I'm sorry but you are going about this the entirely wrong way. Keep him in the V6 (which is still more than enough power to kill someone) until you trust him in the ZL1. Detuning the ZL1 does nothing other than cost money and possibly damage the engine.

alex70olds · 04-03-2013, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

I'm sorry but you are going about this the entirely wrong way. Keep him in the V6 (which is still more than enough power to kill someone) until you trust him in the ZL1. Detuning the ZL1 does nothing other than cost money and possibly damage the engine.

In PTM 1 it detunes itself, a lot.

Jim968 · 04-03-2013, 07:54 PM

Why not send him to a few HPDEs and let an instructor teach him to drive it in a safe, controlled environment?

BloodRain · 04-03-2013, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HighFly27

I don't think... " You All Get It ! " The car gets detuned and it's the No# 1 Plan. I live on narrow, crummy, pot holes, rough... asphalt type roads. My house is in farming area, I live on 1 1/2 miles of a sandy (type) road. This LT1 can not use half it's power.. or it will break loose and dart off into the tree's. I have I-10 about 10 miles away and it's good to go.

So, I will spend time with my Son... teaching him the .. No.. No's about what he can do and Not to Do with a high performance car. It's just stupid to hand him the key's and say.. don't wreck it. I'm a retired Test Pilot/ Instructor and have checked out 100's of test pilots in my 26 years of service. The pilots are trained at the Test Pilot Course and receive their graduation check ride. The newly qualified test pilots report back to their unit and take another check ride with me. Some of the pilots have less then 500 hours of flight time. The pilots are fully qualified, they know all the technical data about the aircraft and fly it 100%. However, they (may) get brain jam when something happens i.e. engine out, flight control's malfunction, etc. . The Brain Jam comes from coping with -- making all the right decisions in a fraction of a second. It's not that uncommon to (I stop the wrong choice) block their intended action to turn --- the good engine off, when the (simulated) bad engine was the correct engine that needed to be selected (they messed up).

Regarding my son or anyone that has Not had High Performance driving experience... it's the smart move to give him better odd's. I've already said, (to him) we'd take the ZL1 to a local drag strip (580 HP) and see what kind of times it will run. Only an fool would try to lay into the power of a ZL1 has on the crummy roads in my home area. The best race car driver in the world could not charge down these cow patch roads and not crash. It would be .... only a matter of time until it darted off in the tree's. Now, handing the keys to my son and saying be careful.. won't do it... he has no idea of what 580 HP does in a micro second.

It's guaranteed that I'll train him up and will reduce his risk's in the ZL1. When, I go to my grave.. I do not expect to roll over.. from not training him right & he knew better. He can still crash & smash but knew that he violated his training. He's the fool that operated outside the envelope of the car (per) -- road conditions, speed to high, etc. (he f_'ed up).

Closing, I've always viewed driving or flying as a personal contest between man & machine. I pit myself against the top speed I can achieve and not lose control and spin out or crash. Driving a car has a lot more variables involved (dirt track car) i.e. set up of the car, tire choice, track condition, HP output that night for temp. & humidity, and most important... race strategy (who your racing against) & how to win against them.

Why are you teaching this now? Holy crap.

Glad I never had a father like you. Control freak to the max.

Gizz69 · 04-03-2013, 09:57 PM

I am not going to get into quoting all of the insanity that has been said, but I will make a few points:

1. If the kid had problems respecting 323 HP in the V6, he will not respect 580 HP in the ZL1. If you "de-tune" it, you are not teaching him to respect the 580 HP either. You are just teaching him to respect whatever imaginary number you think you can de-tune the car to.

2. I have no issue with a kid having the car. I had a 450 HP 1969 Chevy Impala convertible when I was 16, so I understand what you are trying to do. The difference is, my dad and I rebuilt that car and motor so it was my blood sweat and tears all over that car and it made me respect it much more. If you want the kid to respect the car, make him make the payments or at least the insurance payments.

3. A roll bar is a great idea, and I would certainly get one. I would also get one of the GPS locator devices that you can install in the car and track from anywhere in the world via a web-page. It will tell you where the car is at all times and what was done when it was driven. He does not even have to know it is installed until you catch him breaking the rules you have set forth.

4. All in all though, if you want to have him respect the car, you need to take smaller steps than a V6 to a ZL1. You should get a SS and have him use that for a while, and then if you want, upgrade to the ZL1 down the road.

5. Never let him control when a camera is on or off.

6. A drag strip is a great idea for learning about the pure power of the car. I would also consider looking around at road courses and seeing if there are any good driving schools that show you how to drive cars with power or at high speeds. Once you do that in a controlled environment, you are more likely to do the right thing on the street.

7. Tell him the first time the car sees a certain speed (like 90+) outside of controlled track conditions is the day it gets put in the garage for 6 months, or sold outright. If he gets a speeding ticket, etc, have some sort of punishment that takes the car away.

Bhobbs · 04-03-2013, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex70olds

In PTM 1 it detunes itself, a lot.

I thought PTM controls the way the power is applied based on the setting, not how the engine performs.

Gizz69 · 04-03-2013, 10:11 PM

It doesn't matter what you do to de-tune the car. The second you de-tune the car, you are not respecting the 580 HP benchmark. Period. You can only respect the power that the car has, and if you de-tune it, you are not going to learn the respect for it's full capabilities.

Gizz69 · 04-03-2013, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HighFly27

I don't think... " You All Get It ! " The car gets detuned and it's the No# 1 Plan.

No... YOU do not get it. If you de-tune, you are not going to learn the respect of the full power of the car... EVER.

ZLWonton · 04-03-2013, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gizz69

No... YOU do not get it. If you de-tune, you are not going to learn the respect of the full power of the car... EVER.

Didn't I tell you this thread was a train wreck?!

HighFly27 · 04-03-2013, 10:24 PM

G4M3OVR

I did not see you highlight the part where I live on a dirt road & 10 miles to the nearest decent road (I-10). I live off of (177-A) a narrow rural road, with lots of farm machinery traffic, log trucks & country folk. The roads are in fair to poor condition and needs (pot holes, patched spots, etc.) and needs resurfaced.

A high performance car has No business letting the horses out here, Absolutely Not ! I do have plans to take my car to the local drag strips and letting al the (580 HP) out. However, in the mean time I will limit the engines output. This plan goes right along with the (4000 RPM/ 1500 miles) break-in period. Remember, it's my car and I'll do what I planned to do (detune) from the day I bought it.

Also, your all' invited to come down here and tear up your ZL1 on these cow path roads, I sure will be impressed. I'll be very impressed when my young man drives by in his detuned ZL1 and your wrecked ZL1 is being towed away. Now, I did not change a thing about where I live (country roads) and how & why I was detuning my ZL1. You can't use 1/2 the power the engine will develop (where I live). Anyone that attempts to race around here in any type of high performance car will -- beat the car up, be in a accident or cause one. You'll risk your life, or be responsible for the injury/ lives of others.

So, I won't be turning over the keys to my son or anyone driving a (very) high performance car. I won't give them the keys of car that's way too powerful for the roads we live on and tell to try to control a 580 HP car. I will drive the car to a local track and let everyone of the 580 HP out. This is after the break in period and after I have had some time to train my son. He will understand what happens when he goes (580 HP) full throttle. He'll know what type of road conditions he has to have to hook that 580 HP up to. He will know (absolutely) what will happen (crash & smash) if he tries to drop the hammer on our messed up roads. He'll learn a lot more too -- how to read the road way i. e. bumps, patched places, pot holes, wet roads, trucks dropping sand (happens in curves a lot) or ?? on the road, road debris.. things that cut tires, oil film on the road when it rains after a dry spell, etc. .

I've spent a lot time on the roads, trucked for 6 years after I retired from the military. I've trucked 48 states & Canada; one can learn a lot from watching the road (closely). Unfortunately (truckers), we see a lot of accidents, quite often.. their younger drivers in high performance cars. Yes, dad or mom turned them loose in their car or bought them a car.

I remember, being young and I had No Fear (immortal) and dumb as a box of rocks (in some things). Racing around on bad tires (spun them down), driving flat out on country roads.. no margin of error (right on the edge). I had one minor wreck when I blew a right front tire (was nearly bald). Later on, I had a ..Wake Up Call Wreck and changed me forever. I was going in the army in two weeks time. I was going to see my gal (100 mile trip) and 2 of my best friends went along. They came along to go out with two of her girl friends. We were on the road for about 30 minutes and I decided to pass some backed up traffic. It was road grader, bunny bread truck and two cars. I had a 300 HP (327) SS Impala. and it would move along. I dropped the hammer and everything was fine... the backed up traffic was about 35 MPH. I was up to 100 MPH in no time and almost up to the road grader. However, I was approaching the crest of a hill and it started to curve to the left. I had just come up to the point where the road went from a pass lane to double solid line. I had not cleared the road grader (about 150 feet to go. I did not figure on having another (Plymouth, Fury III) car coming from the other lane at a high rate of speed. So, now.. I have a closure rate of around 180 MPH. I'm doing over 100 and the other guy is around 80 MPH. We both got on the brakes as hard as we could. I went on the left berm of the opposing traffic lane (his right side). I did this to avoid a head on at 140 MPH or so. Things looked Ok until the Fury III stared to loose it and turned about 30 degrees (braking hard) and his nose started heading for the berm that I was on (about 50 MPH).... I ran out of room. His right front hit my -- passenger door, right at the door hinge and cut it off like you cut it with a torch. My car rolled to the left on it's roof (upside down). I skidded up the hill in a vee type channel (on berm) to a stop. The car roof was barely scratched and had some minor damage to the front of the hood and rear deck of the trunk. My friend that was riding shot gun had a small cut on his right arm, 5 stitches. My friend in the back seat was just shaken up (rolling around in the back) and OK. I was not hurt but really felt bad... hurting my best friend's and causing a accident. The other guy was Ok (not hurt), his two girls were in the back (twins) seat and shook up but OK.

I never drove stupid again and learned my lesson the hard way ! I could have killed my best friend's and the three people in the Fury III. Just Stupid, I was Total S. Head and it wised me up (forever). My dad gave me the keys too and never checked up on me... I was a Accident looking for a place to happen. When I drove by all the (trucking) wrecks I've seen on the highways... I thought about how careless I was with my life and others as well. I hope that some of you read this thread in the right way... it's about being smarter than dirt and cutting down on unnecessary risk factor(s); other than sex.. having a hot car is one the top 5 ways of enjoying life (your car) to the max. . Race the hell out of it.. just pick the (track/strip/isolated road way) time & place and let her rip !

I realize that I was Long Winded (above) but please understand that it was for Good Cause. Getting Hurt in a car or hunting some else is not a good thing. I've had a love affair with cars all my life and being smart about driving one is the way to go. Most of my cars, about 10 of them have been high performance and I don't plan on crashing my ZL1 (by pushing it to my limits).

BloodRain · 04-03-2013, 10:31 PM

Sound like your letting your immaturity from your youth fuel your fear for your children.

Still no good.

Over protection has never ever worked. Why are most catholic girls the easiest to bang? Same principal.

Gizz69 · 04-03-2013, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xanytos

Didn't I tell you this thread was a train wreck?!

You did indeed. This is just craziness.

If you can't use the car to it's potential or even worse, you want to change the car to hold it back to one that you already have (V6), why buy a new one? You can make the V6 Camaro look like a ZL1 for a lot less cost than the ZL1.

Also, stop telling us that the damn car has 580 HP. We all know exactly how many horses are under the hood of the car.

04-03-2013, 09:57 PM	#133
Gizz69 Tony Drives: 2013 Camaro ZL1 Blk/Blk Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Keller, TX Posts: 374 View My Garage	I am not going to get into quoting all of the insanity that has been said, but I will make a few points: 1. If the kid had problems respecting 323 HP in the V6, he will not respect 580 HP in the ZL1. If you "de-tune" it, you are not teaching him to respect the 580 HP either. You are just teaching him to respect whatever imaginary number you think you can de-tune the car to. 2. I have no issue with a kid having the car. I had a 450 HP 1969 Chevy Impala convertible when I was 16, so I understand what you are trying to do. The difference is, my dad and I rebuilt that car and motor so it was my blood sweat and tears all over that car and it made me respect it much more. If you want the kid to respect the car, make him make the payments or at least the insurance payments. 3. A roll bar is a great idea, and I would certainly get one. I would also get one of the GPS locator devices that you can install in the car and track from anywhere in the world via a web-page. It will tell you where the car is at all times and what was done when it was driven. He does not even have to know it is installed until you catch him breaking the rules you have set forth. 4. All in all though, if you want to have him respect the car, you need to take smaller steps than a V6 to a ZL1. You should get a SS and have him use that for a while, and then if you want, upgrade to the ZL1 down the road. 5. Never let him control when a camera is on or off. 6. A drag strip is a great idea for learning about the pure power of the car. I would also consider looking around at road courses and seeing if there are any good driving schools that show you how to drive cars with power or at high speeds. Once you do that in a controlled environment, you are more likely to do the right thing on the street. 7. Tell him the first time the car sees a certain speed (like 90+) outside of controlled track conditions is the day it gets put in the garage for 6 months, or sold outright. If he gets a speeding ticket, etc, have some sort of punishment that takes the car away. __________________

04-03-2013, 10:11 PM	#135
Gizz69 Tony Drives: 2013 Camaro ZL1 Blk/Blk Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Keller, TX Posts: 374 View My Garage	It doesn't matter what you do to de-tune the car. The second you de-tune the car, you are not respecting the 580 HP benchmark. Period. You can only respect the power that the car has, and if you de-tune it, you are not going to learn the respect for it's full capabilities. __________________

04-03-2013, 07:34 PM	#129
Bhobbs Drives: 2015 SS 1LE Red Hot, 1970 Chevelle Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Chino, CA Posts: 6,989	I'm sorry but you are going about this the entirely wrong way. Keep him in the V6 (which is still more than enough power to kill someone) until you trust him in the ZL1. Detuning the ZL1 does nothing other than cost money and possibly damage the engine.

04-03-2013, 07:54 PM	#131
Jim968 Drives: 2018 2SS Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Ohio Posts: 294	Why not send him to a few HPDEs and let an instructor teach him to drive it in a safe, controlled environment?

04-03-2013, 10:24 PM	#138
HighFly27 Drives: 2013 ZL1 Conv. & 2002 V-6 Conv. Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Bonifay, FL Posts: 25	G4M3OVR I did not see you highlight the part where I live on a dirt road & 10 miles to the nearest decent road (I-10). I live off of (177-A) a narrow rural road, with lots of farm machinery traffic, log trucks & country folk. The roads are in fair to poor condition and needs (pot holes, patched spots, etc.) and needs resurfaced. A high performance car has No business letting the horses out here, Absolutely Not ! I do have plans to take my car to the local drag strips and letting al the (580 HP) out. However, in the mean time I will limit the engines output. This plan goes right along with the (4000 RPM/ 1500 miles) break-in period. Remember, it's my car and I'll do what I planned to do (detune) from the day I bought it. Also, your all' invited to come down here and tear up your ZL1 on these cow path roads, I sure will be impressed. I'll be very impressed when my young man drives by in his detuned ZL1 and your wrecked ZL1 is being towed away. Now, I did not change a thing about where I live (country roads) and how & why I was detuning my ZL1. You can't use 1/2 the power the engine will develop (where I live). Anyone that attempts to race around here in any type of high performance car will -- beat the car up, be in a accident or cause one. You'll risk your life, or be responsible for the injury/ lives of others. So, I won't be turning over the keys to my son or anyone driving a (very) high performance car. I won't give them the keys of car that's way too powerful for the roads we live on and tell to try to control a 580 HP car. I will drive the car to a local track and let everyone of the 580 HP out. This is after the break in period and after I have had some time to train my son. He will understand what happens when he goes (580 HP) full throttle. He'll know what type of road conditions he has to have to hook that 580 HP up to. He will know (absolutely) what will happen (crash & smash) if he tries to drop the hammer on our messed up roads. He'll learn a lot more too -- how to read the road way i. e. bumps, patched places, pot holes, wet roads, trucks dropping sand (happens in curves a lot) or ?? on the road, road debris.. things that cut tires, oil film on the road when it rains after a dry spell, etc. . I've spent a lot time on the roads, trucked for 6 years after I retired from the military. I've trucked 48 states & Canada; one can learn a lot from watching the road (closely). Unfortunately (truckers), we see a lot of accidents, quite often.. their younger drivers in high performance cars. Yes, dad or mom turned them loose in their car or bought them a car. I remember, being young and I had No Fear (immortal) and dumb as a box of rocks (in some things). Racing around on bad tires (spun them down), driving flat out on country roads.. no margin of error (right on the edge). I had one minor wreck when I blew a right front tire (was nearly bald). Later on, I had a ..Wake Up Call Wreck and changed me forever. I was going in the army in two weeks time. I was going to see my gal (100 mile trip) and 2 of my best friends went along. They came along to go out with two of her girl friends. We were on the road for about 30 minutes and I decided to pass some backed up traffic. It was road grader, bunny bread truck and two cars. I had a 300 HP (327) SS Impala. and it would move along. I dropped the hammer and everything was fine... the backed up traffic was about 35 MPH. I was up to 100 MPH in no time and almost up to the road grader. However, I was approaching the crest of a hill and it started to curve to the left. I had just come up to the point where the road went from a pass lane to double solid line. I had not cleared the road grader (about 150 feet to go. I did not figure on having another (Plymouth, Fury III) car coming from the other lane at a high rate of speed. So, now.. I have a closure rate of around 180 MPH. I'm doing over 100 and the other guy is around 80 MPH. We both got on the brakes as hard as we could. I went on the left berm of the opposing traffic lane (his right side). I did this to avoid a head on at 140 MPH or so. Things looked Ok until the Fury III stared to loose it and turned about 30 degrees (braking hard) and his nose started heading for the berm that I was on (about 50 MPH).... I ran out of room. His right front hit my -- passenger door, right at the door hinge and cut it off like you cut it with a torch. My car rolled to the left on it's roof (upside down). I skidded up the hill in a vee type channel (on berm) to a stop. The car roof was barely scratched and had some minor damage to the front of the hood and rear deck of the trunk. My friend that was riding shot gun had a small cut on his right arm, 5 stitches. My friend in the back seat was just shaken up (rolling around in the back) and OK. I was not hurt but really felt bad... hurting my best friend's and causing a accident. The other guy was Ok (not hurt), his two girls were in the back (twins) seat and shook up but OK. I never drove stupid again and learned my lesson the hard way ! I could have killed my best friend's and the three people in the Fury III. Just Stupid, I was Total S. Head and it wised me up (forever). My dad gave me the keys too and never checked up on me... I was a Accident looking for a place to happen. When I drove by all the (trucking) wrecks I've seen on the highways... I thought about how careless I was with my life and others as well. I hope that some of you read this thread in the right way... it's about being smarter than dirt and cutting down on unnecessary risk factor(s); other than sex.. having a hot car is one the top 5 ways of enjoying life (your car) to the max. . Race the hell out of it.. just pick the (track/strip/isolated road way) time & place and let her rip ! I realize that I was Long Winded (above) but please understand that it was for Good Cause. Getting Hurt in a car or hunting some else is not a good thing. I've had a love affair with cars all my life and being smart about driving one is the way to go. Most of my cars, about 10 of them have been high performance and I don't plan on crashing my ZL1 (by pushing it to my limits).

04-03-2013, 10:31 PM	#139
BloodRain Account Suspended Drives: 1LE Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Canada Posts: 217	Sound like your letting your immaturity from your youth fuel your fear for your children. Still no good. Over protection has never ever worked. Why are most catholic girls the easiest to bang? Same principal.