11-21-2019, 11:03 AM | #127 | |
Drives: 2013 Camaro ZL1 convertible IOM Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Lewisville, TX
Posts: 270
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11-21-2019, 11:07 AM | #128 |
Account Suspended
Drives: 19 Camaro SS 1LE, 03 Ford Lightning Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 334
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In terms of quality I would say that GM quality is way better than it was 15-20 years ago. My new SS is much better constructed than my old 02 SS. Not even close. GM used to be plagued with goofy issues like window motors going bad, electronic systems acting weird, weak and noisy rearends, etc.
With that said quality doesn't necessarily equate to reliability. (Even though it can) Other than the alternator going bad the LS Juan was always reliable. These newer and more advanced/complicated with systems like VVT, DI, and AFM(DOD) haven't proven to be as reliable as the GEN3/GEN4 SBC's that precessed them. JMO. Vehicles in general seem to have more issues than they used too. Not unexpected though with all the electronics and modern systems decide to give smaller motors more performance, with better fuel economy, and more refinement. |
11-21-2019, 06:18 PM | #129 | |
Hail to the King baby!
Drives: '19 XT4 2.0T & '22 VW Atlas 2.0T Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 12,174
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Reliability - does it every time the customer expects it to Durability - does it for as long as the customer expects it to Note it's related to customer expectation. Engineering turns that into quantifiable metrics for design and validation. So Quality has little to do with Reliability other than some people would use the word quality as an umbrella word to cover all 3 elements.
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"Speed, it seems to me, provides the one genuinely modern pleasure." - Aldous Huxley
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11-21-2019, 09:59 PM | #130 |
Drives: Wild Cherry LT1 Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,925
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Never said they did, but some of the areas I mentioned contribute to CR scaling. Unfortunate, but true.
The shuddering 8 speed, cold engine misfire, NPP rattle, occasional antilock brake dysfunction and differential groan could be added to my issues list (for my now gone 2016) I would say 3 out of 5 of these are reliability issues. Last edited by Chutzpah; 11-21-2019 at 10:35 PM. |
11-22-2019, 11:43 AM | #131 |
Drives: ‘23 SS1LE Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Oregon
Posts: 290
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In-class comparisons are the ones that are valuable. A sports car is never going to have reliability comparable to a four wheeled appliance.
My fourth gen Camaro went through 4-5 sets of front rotors, a couple alternators, a belt tensioner, water pump, and had a dead AC compressor & PW motor and a slipping clutch when I was forced to dump it with 167k due to a cross country move. I was very pleased with the overall reliability considering what I put it through. I picked up a 2005 Pontiac Vibe used when they were the best used car values on the market (a Toyota Matrix with Pontiac depreciation). 244k on the clock and the interior fan is the only mechanical repair of any kind the car has needed, amazing. But subject it to a couple hundred 1/4 passes, a few afternoons on the road course, a few thousand power shifts, etc, like my Camaro and it would be in the wrecking yard by now. |
11-22-2019, 09:48 PM | #132 | |
Drives: 2018 1SS M6 Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,617
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11-22-2019, 11:47 PM | #133 |
Drives: '16 Camaro SS 6 spd manual transm. Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: RGV Texas
Posts: 1,463
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This is B.S. both of my Camaros: '14 ZL1 & '16 SS are very reliable.
I can't say the same of the '14 Stingray Z51 and of my prior '02 Porsche 911 Carrera unreliable vehicles.
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'16 Camaro SS
Prior cars: '14 Corvette C7 Stingray Z51 '14 Camaro ZL1 w/. Recaro seats '11 Mustang GT 5.0 w. track package '02 Porsche 911 Carrera '05 Infiniti G35 coupe sport |
11-23-2019, 11:48 AM | #134 | |
Banned
Drives: 2017 Super Sport Cam. Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: US
Posts: 893
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CR is a joke...have been for years. They are in the back pocket of Toyota and other foreign makers because they are heavily invested in their stock. |
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11-23-2019, 11:59 AM | #135 |
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Drives: 2017 Super Sport Cam. Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: US
Posts: 893
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I just turned 30k miles on my SS 6 speed. The only paint defect was the paint on my right front wheel discoloring and they replaced the whole rim with a new one. So far my car has been flawless in dependability and build except for that and run it hard when pulling off exit ramps at every opportunity, and bang gears when the roads are clear. Also keep in mind the are assembly line high performance cars, you would be spending $25 or $30k or much more for this kind of performance from a foreign car, and the quality and certainly the dependability not as good.
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11-23-2019, 12:01 PM | #136 | |
Banned
Drives: 2017 Super Sport Cam. Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: US
Posts: 893
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May as well had been...both Fake News. |
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11-23-2019, 05:02 PM | #137 |
Hail to the King baby!
Drives: '19 XT4 2.0T & '22 VW Atlas 2.0T Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 12,174
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Lol sorry but CR is far from fake news. You may not agree with their methodology and survey but it’s what they do and it’s repeatable.
Just because you don’t like the result doesn’t make it fake, it just means you don’t agree, and that’s ok.
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"Speed, it seems to me, provides the one genuinely modern pleasure." - Aldous Huxley
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11-23-2019, 10:13 PM | #138 |
Drives: 2019 1ss 1le, blue wrap Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Maryland
Posts: 633
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While CR is probably not a bad actor, as a non-subcriber, i find the reporting on CR annoying because i'm often not left with any information to judge the meaningfulness of the rating other than how one car ranks relative to another.
For example, if in the extreme case, i'm told CR rates 20 times more problems with one car than another, it's less meaningful to me if the difference was one car only had one problem in 1000 over several years versus the worse car had 20 minor problems with the infotainment over the same sampling. But it's rarely reported in a way for me to judge. And i'm still reminded this is not a random sampling of owners, but of those who subscribe to CR, and of those, the ones that responded to the survey. |
11-24-2019, 05:57 AM | #139 | |
Hail to the King baby!
Drives: '19 XT4 2.0T & '22 VW Atlas 2.0T Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 12,174
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Hammered Cadillac for CUE, which while not awesome, was not horrible either. Even Tesla was beaten up a bit for the auto door handles on the Model S. Most of heir evaluations are about things many owners or enthusiasts who buy the car don’t care much about. And a slong as you know where the data comes from and it’s limitations, it can be of value. The only issue is do you love your Camaro and would you buy another one? I would say for some cars going on the web to sites like Camaro6 and doing some research might be better than CR. But there aren’t many websites for my LaCrosse lol.
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"Speed, it seems to me, provides the one genuinely modern pleasure." - Aldous Huxley
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11-28-2019, 02:59 PM | #140 |
Drives: 22 Convertible V8 LT1 Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Jensen Beach, Florida
Posts: 219
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$5 customers expect perfection for nothing and love to complain
$10 customers are happy they can spend their money and carry on $20 customers understand it's a business $50 customers consider it to be an art form and enjoy the flaws $100 customers find it to be the least they can do |
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