[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

Haha, man you sound like your ass is chapped...and totally naive. You really are delusional.

Ford produces a base GT with narrow all season tires NOT to compete with the SS, but because they are cheaper and they know a large percentage of buyers do not want more expensive, summer only tires as these are daily drivers across all parts of the country. Ford knows the SS has a tire advantage, and they don't care...and for some reason that eats you up.

Likewise, they produce the PP1 not to compete with the 1LE, but to give buyers something that is a little more track ready, with summer tires and a few more track oriented goodies without making an all out track performer. Once again, Ford already knew how the 1LE performed...and if they wanted to produce a car that competed with it, they would have. And again, for whatever reason this eats you up.

Lastly, the PP2 is produced with a completed upgraded and tuned suspension with track ready tires. This is absolutely Fords attempt to match the 1LE. This is blatantly obvious...how anyone here or in any other forum can argue otherwise is delusional. Once again, it is claimed the PP2 is a good 3.5 seconds faster than the PP1 around Grattan raceway. This should make it very close in performance to the 1LE.

Will it beat it, I really don't care...as I will never own either. But for anyone to argue that the PP1 was made to compete with the 1LE is out of their mind.

Yeah, this seems to be the case to me as well. GM should offer a more base GT style V8 option, that's much cheaper than the current base SS as well as more versatile(all seasons etc).

It doesn't seem to me that Ford has made an attempt to directly compete with the 1LE until this new PP2 came out.

Outside of that great upcoming H2H, I am quite interested in the gap between the PP2 and the GT350 as well to be honest. I want to know how much the PP2 improves the GT in comparison to what Ford did with the GT350.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by F1FTY

You're right, the GT350 does prove the capability of the S550 chassis. Except it also costs a lot more than the Camaro SS 1LE. Why is that?

Because the only thing unique to the 1LE is the wheels. Everything else was taken from another car.

[SSfriendly]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Yeah, this seems to be the case to me as well. GM should offer a more base GT style V8 option, that's much cheaper than the current base SS as well as more versatile(all seasons etc).

It doesn't seem to me that Ford has made an attempt to directly compete with the 1LE until this new PP2 came out.

Outside of that great upcoming H2H, I am quite interested in the gap between the PP2 and the GT350 as well to be honest. I want to know how much the PP2 improves the GT in comparison to what Ford did with the GT350.

Very curious as well. I think the gap is going to be EXTREMELY small between the PP2 and the GT350. In the end though, the base GT350 isn't the all out track variant...and (GT350) owners aren't really going to care. The GT350 is gone after this year anyways, so Ford really isn't stepping on toes per say, but moving on to bigger (GT500) things.

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

People also ingest Tide detergent pods.

I’m sure Proctor & Gamble appreciates the sales.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

What hard data do you have to suggest it was the tires? Here is some proof. When the car feels like it is unstable and like you're sitting on top of a stack of phone books on a water bed, that is indicative of the chassis. The fact that Mustang people keep talking about how comfortable the Mustang is, that is indicative of the suspension as well as the chassis. The fact that the SS beat the GT by well over 3 seconds is indicative of a better chassis. The fact that the SS 1LE can match or beat the non-R GT350 despite having less hp and truck engine with COPD is indicative of a better overall package, not just better tires. Now is some company going to go to GM and Ford, get a chassis of each car and then test them both? No. But is there enough evidence in the performance of both cars to tell us all we need to know? Of course.

And let me ask you yet again, if it was just a matter of tires, why did they go to all these lengths to build a car that could compete when they could have just thrown a better tire on it?

I never claimed tires were the only advantage. The issues the S550 has from a performance standpoint have been demonstrated to be correctable with suspension adjustments, tires etc. The chassis is very capable.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

Haha, man you sound like your ass is chapped...and totally naive. You really are delusional.

Ford produces a base GT with narrow all season tires NOT to compete with the SS, but because they are cheaper and they know a large percentage of buyers do not want more expensive, summer only tires as these are daily drivers across all parts of the country. Ford knows the SS has a tire advantage, and they don't care...and for some reason that eats you up.

Likewise, they produce the PP1 not to compete with the 1LE, but to give buyers something that is a little more track ready, with summer tires and a few more track oriented goodies without making an all out track performer. Once again, Ford already knew how the 1LE performed...and if they wanted to produce a car that competed with it, they would have. And again, for whatever reason this eats you up.

Lastly, the PP2 is produced with a completed upgraded and tuned suspension with track ready tires. This is absolutely Fords attempt to match the 1LE. This is blatantly obvious...how anyone here or in any other forum can argue otherwise is delusional. Once again, it is claimed the PP2 is a good 3.5 seconds faster than the PP1 around Grattan raceway. This should make it very close in performance to the 1LE.

Will it beat it, I really don't care...as I will never own either. But for anyone to argue that the PP1 was made to compete with the 1LE is out of their mind.

I think you're the delusional one. You need every excuse to defend the GT getting beat badly. Again, Ford just spent a ton of money on R&D for the GT. They co-developed the A10 trans, They pushed the engine to 460. They added DFI. and then shipped it to tuners and shops all for the sole purpose of getting the best quarter mile they could. And you insist that it wasn't for performance reasons? Again, if that was the case, why not just save the money and do cosmetic stuff only? And why were you on here up until it got it's ass kicked bragging about all the performance improvements? You never said any of this until recently. What gives?

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

I’m sure Proctor & Gamble appreciates the sales.
I never claimed tires were the only advantage. The issues the S550 has from a performance standpoint have been demonstrated to be correctable with suspension adjustments, tires etc. The chassis is very capable.

any actual data to back up those claims? and please include hard data in support.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

I’m sure Proctor & Gamble appreciates the sales.

Honestly, I have my suspensions about these incidents anyway. But that's a story for another day.

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

I never claimed tires were the only advantage. The issues the S550 has from a performance standpoint have been demonstrated to be correctable with suspension adjustments, tires etc. The chassis is very capable.

Nobody said it wasn't capable. We remarked at how good the Alpha chassis was which you then demanded some sort of scientific data. Those examples I gave prove how much better the chassis is. The GT chassis is good. It has to be to handle the engine and trans. But it is nowhere near the SS chassis. And that shows in how far off it is in performance. It isn't a matter of a tire swap. GM did a good job on the 6th Gen Camaro and it is evident. The fact that Ford is going to great lengths to keep up and have still fallen short shows how well GM did.

[SSfriendly]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

The fact that Ford is going to great lengths to keep up and have still fallen short shows how well GM did.

Huh? They haven't tested the SS1LE equivalent GT yet (PP2).

And by going to great lengths, you mean actually equipping a GT similarly to a 1LE with adequate suspension tuning? Crazy, I know.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

Huh? They haven't tested the SS1LE equivalent GT yet (PP2).

And by going to great lengths, you mean actually equipping a GT similarly to a 1LE with adequate suspension tuning? Crazy, I know.

Pretty sure he means adding DFI and 7500 RPM redline, A10, and reworked M6 tranny and still getting beat.

[SSfriendly]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

Pretty sure he means adding DFI and 7500 RPM redline, A10, and reworked M6 tranny and still getting beat.

Pretty sure so far, all test show it’s a drivers race between the two. Adding DFI was in the works before the 6th gen Camaro came to b, as was the A10 transmission.

[Gunkk]

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

They haven't tested the SS1LE equivalent GT yet (PP2).

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

Pretty sure so far, all test show it’s a drivers race between the two. Adding DFI was in the works before the 6th gen Camaro came to b, as was the A10 transmission.

You mean a driver's race across a lakebed? Lol

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

Huh? They haven't tested the SS1LE equivalent GT yet (PP2).

And by going to great lengths, you mean actually equipping a GT similarly to a 1LE with adequate suspension tuning? Crazy, I know.

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

Pretty sure so far, all test show it’s a drivers race between the two. Adding DFI was in the works before the 6th gen Camaro came to b, as was the A10 transmission.

The GT is the base model V8 Mustang. And it loses to the base model V8 Camaro. Now I don't care what trim you think is the appropriate match. It loses. The base GT loses to the base SS in everything. The GT PP loses to the base SS. The GT PP loses to the SS 1LE. The GTPP loses to the 2SS. When you compare base to base and go up a trim level the GT loses. When you compare the price and match them accordingly the GT loses. Driver's race in a straight line like it was from 11-14. But the GT is still slower. Meaning that a good driver in a GT can beat a driver of less skill in a SS. But equal drivers and the SS will win. On a track the SS wins. In every performance category the GT has lost. And unless the GT PP2 is a homerun, it will lose to. So no matter how you slice it the GT loses. No matter how close it comes it still loses. AT every comparable category with every comparable consideration it loses. It was not built for comfort. It was not built to NOT match the Camaro. Everything Ford has done has been to keep up with the Camaro and they are barely hanging in there. They directly targeted the SS and the SS 1LE. They took their overnight off the clock team's ideas and put them into motion because they are trying to beat the Camaro. They upped the price because the upgrades done to it to keep up with the Camaro meant higher costs. They marketed it to the performance industry because they are showcasing it's capabilities in direct competition to the Camaro. This isn't some game that you're trying to make it out to be. If it was then you wouldn't be here at all. Ford is trying to match the Camaro. They can't because the Camaro is that good.

[Gen6_1Le]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

You mean a driver's race across a lakebed? Lol

I hope they race again on that lakebed ,see how well the PP2 will do with fatter tires and somewhat real aero on that silt.