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Old 09-18-2013, 01:45 PM   #85
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Quote:
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I don't know.... times have changed. The days of deliberately keeping other performance models "down" so the Vette could be the top dog may be gone. GM isn't the "we're too big to fail" company it used to be. They now want and need every sales dollar, so if the Camaro is a hot seller they may very well ignore the Vette's status as top dog and go ahead and boost the performance of the Camaro to help boost sales. They're really two completely different cars that pretty much appeal to two completely different crowds.

The Vette isn't a family car, while the Camaro being a 4 seater actually can be used as a family car for small families with 1 or 2 kids. I think the Camaro also appeals to a younger demographic which the Vette doesn't.

The Z/28 is going to show the Vette crowd a thing or two.... the days of favoring one model over another for performance may have vanished and been replaced by favoring sales... period.
I agree to a point, but with one reservation, I believe the top dog Vette will always out perform the top dog Camaro... If you go base for base, the Corvette wins, if you go mid model (SS/1LE) to mid model (Z06) the Corvette still will win If you go Top Dog (ZL1) to Top Dog (ZR1) The Corvette will still win. Since the C7 Z06 and ZR1 are not out and neither is the Z/28 we will have to wait and see on those. I really don't think Chevy will step too hard on the Vette's toes....
You will have models of the Camaro that will outperform certain models of the Corvette, but you will always have a Corvette that will outperform ALL models of the Camaro.. JMHO.
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Old 09-18-2013, 02:16 PM   #86
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I hope they don't try and make the Camaro a European car. You would have to completely change the core of the Camaro to make it appeal to European buyers. Even then, you aren't guaranteed to get people to buy it over other, established European brands.
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Old 09-18-2013, 04:05 PM   #87
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I am worried. they have shown they can make the best styled cars in the world, but they can also overthink it now and then too
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Old 09-18-2013, 08:17 PM   #88
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Give me a break , why everyone is worried about , stop that non sense , one can't worry about anything that one don't have any control over it
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Old 09-18-2013, 08:20 PM   #89
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...nah, life is change, everything must follow suit. Even your beloved Camaro.
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Old 09-18-2013, 08:36 PM   #90
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You are assuming that making a Camaro that would sell in Europe would automatically sell less here.

What prohibits the Camaro from selling in Europe is size and displacement among other things. You also have to remember that to sell well in Europe the Camaro would need an outstanding interior. Europeans are actually pretty discriminating when it comes to cars. The simple fact that gas costs so much, the roads are so small and parking is so difficult have created a market where small cars meet our high end expectations.

If and this is a BIG IF GM can engineer a car that sells well in Europe it will sell here.

But I do agree if they make a crappy car to TRY to sell in Europe and it costs them sales here and only reinforces the stereotype of Chevy in Europe, it won't be worth the effort.
....I missed reading this post. I just had to comment on it because of the intuitive content. Number 3 is spot on, as usual.
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Old 09-18-2013, 08:45 PM   #91
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I'll deliver the best news here yet on the styling/performance of the soon to be 6th gen. If you don't like the 6th gen, and you are a member on this site, odds are pretty good you like one or more generations of previously produced Camaros. I for one, like them all. There are thousands of used Camaros looking for new homes/owners. Go buy one and make it your own!

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Old 09-18-2013, 08:49 PM   #92
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With an excellent paintjob, future styling modifications seem to be transformed into something great.
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Old 09-18-2013, 09:05 PM   #93
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...that is quite the "spy shot".....very nice......
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Old 09-21-2013, 12:21 AM   #94
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I honestly have to disagree, even if the Camaro turns out to be faster then the vette doesn't mean its faster lol. If the Camaro was close in weight to the mustang or c7 vette and has the same hp as the vette or more then the mustang might mean its faster on paper ie hp to weight ratio.

But have to look at more then that. Width of tire/wheel combo for traction. suspension setup for traction and turning, gear ratios for acceleration etc. All of those could and do make a dramatic effect on how much faster a car is then another. So what Im getting at it is possible they would make the Camaro much much lighter then the 5th gen and have a similar power to weight ratio as the vette, but the vette would still out perform the Camaro in every category thus holding the position as GMs flag ship car and both cars still pounding the snot out of the mustang. Just my honest opinion, not looking to step on anyones toes

But as far as GM ruining the vette or new Camaro I don't think they will, like said many times all over the net, hateres are going to hate, there will always be people that hate a new design, no matter how good it actually is, there will always be "loyalists" who say they runined the name. But when it comes down to it, things need to change to keep buyers interested. The word ruin will be completely opinion based
If you guys believe they will let a 37k Camaro get too close to their 60k Vette in performance you have another thing coming. There are Camaro's that out perform Vettes but you surely pay for it. A Zl1 outperforms a Grand sport but they cost about the same. Z28 outperforms many Vettes but you really pay for it. As far as the suspension, wheels, brakes, gear ratios Ect.. If you took the 1LE, put a LT1 in it and removed 400lbs the performance would be wayyyy too close for GM comfort vs a C7. If you have 4 seater car that looks great for 37k that has the same or close performance as your 60k flagship car how are you expected to justify the cost difference to buyers? Lots of people look at bang for your buck and won't care about the social status of the name or interior quality. This is why I don't think we will see a Camaro SS under 3600 lbs and that's bad news for the car
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Old 09-21-2013, 12:46 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by VADER SS L99 View Post
If you guys believe they will let a 37k Camaro get too close to their 60k Vette in performance you have another thing coming. There are Camaro's that out perform Vettes but you surely pay for it. A Zl1 outperforms a Grand sport but they cost about the same. Z28 outperforms many Vettes but you really pay for it. As far as the suspension, wheels, brakes, gear ratios Ect.. If you took the 1LE, put a LT1 in it and removed 400lbs the performance would be wayyyy too close for GM comfort vs a C7. If you have 4 seater car that looks great for 37k that has the same or close performance as your 60k flagship car how are you expected to justify the cost difference to buyers? Lots of people look at bang for your buck and won't care about the social status of the name or interior quality. This is why I don't think we will see a Camaro SS under 3600 lbs and that's bad news for the car
If Chevy does too much to protect the Corvette by keeping the Camaro overweight or underpowered, they risk seriously shooting themselves in the foot. It won't be able to compete with the Mustang or other competitors. The Camaro's sales dwarf the Corvettes. While I'm sure a Corvette has higher margins, I highly suspect the actual profits from Camaro are higher than Corvette. They can't afford to make the Camaro non-competitive.

I am amazed that alot of people on this thread like the rear of the C7 Corvette. I think the Corvette looks really good with the exception of the rear, which I think is hideous with the droopy mascara vents and way too large black rear diffuser. I think the rear of the 2014 Camaro refresh was a big step back, but I don't think it looks horrible. I am concerned Chevy might mess up the new Camaro, or at least the rear of it.
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Old 09-21-2013, 02:44 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by kdepew View Post
If Chevy does too much to protect the Corvette by keeping the Camaro overweight or underpowered, they risk seriously shooting themselves in the foot. It won't be able to compete with the Mustang or other competitors. The Camaro's sales dwarf the Corvettes. While I'm sure a Corvette has higher margins, I highly suspect the actual profits from Camaro are higher than Corvette. They can't afford to make the Camaro non-competitive.

I am amazed that alot of people on this thread like the rear of the C7 Corvette. I think the Corvette looks really good with the exception of the rear, which I think is hideous with the droopy mascara vents and way too large black rear diffuser. I think the rear of the 2014 Camaro refresh was a big step back, but I don't think it looks horrible. I am concerned Chevy might mess up the new Camaro, or at least the rear of it.
Your first 2 sentences are exactly my point and why GM will be up against a rock and a hard place. Do they drop the weight enough to beat the new stang and risk the car being on par or very close to their much more expensive halo car? Or do they keep them far enough apart and let the Camaro be the Mustangs bitch? I think for them to cover both and to make sure the Vette ends up in front of both pony cars they will need to tweak the LT1 so that it makes at least 480hp in the Vette and 460hp in the Camaro. I also think the Camaro will have to have a MAXIMUM weight in the 3500lb area to have a clear shot of competing with the new stang. Good luck GM, I hope you pull it off.
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Old 09-21-2013, 08:07 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by kdepew View Post
If Chevy does too much to protect the Corvette by keeping the Camaro overweight or underpowered, they risk seriously shooting themselves in the foot. It won't be able to compete with the Mustang or other competitors. The Camaro's sales dwarf the Corvettes. While I'm sure a Corvette has higher margins, I highly suspect the actual profits from Camaro are higher than Corvette. They can't afford to make the Camaro non-competitive.

I am amazed that alot of people on this thread like the rear of the C7 Corvette. I think the Corvette looks really good with the exception of the rear, which I think is hideous with the droopy mascara vents and way too large black rear diffuser. I think the rear of the 2014 Camaro refresh was a big step back, but I don't think it looks horrible. I am concerned Chevy might mess up the new Camaro, or at least the rear of it.
Exactly. Stop it GM with putting huge rear diffusers on your cars. Chevy got it right with the 2010-2013 Camaro. Making it twice as big makes it 4x worse.
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Old 09-21-2013, 08:24 AM   #98
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I love the new C7 Vette. Can't wait to see one in person.
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